Western Rifle Shooters Association

Do not give in to Evil, but proceed ever more boldly against it

Monday, December 6, 2010

Codrea: Musings On An ATF Informant

Please read David's latest.

Understand that the majority of Class III (full auto) owners are completely mute in both the Second Amendment and overall individual freedom struggles, out of a "I got my toys and I ain't rocking any boats" rationale.

Think of a Fudd, but with more contempt for the so-called "SNBI" (shall not be infringed) crowd and other Constitutionalists.

May they all choke on their own porridge.

You may also want to check attorney David Hardy's post and its embedded link for yet another chapter of "BATFU Follies".

Make sure to share it with your friends/soon-to-be-felons who currently own pistol-grip shotguns.


Anonymous Defender said...

I see that there's a historically large wildfire in Israel right now. One of the areas being threatened or destroyed is the original Mount Carmel.
The Waco tragedy -- no, OBSCENITY -- at the Branch Davidians' Mt. Carmel community in Texas began when some gun-ignorant person reported hearing possible full-auto fire at the Davidian practice range. Nobody there had a Class III license so off the ATF went. Lots of people died (with the kill ratio in the government's favor 20-1), and no selective-fire weapon was found among charred corpses and melted toys.
The law remains 17 years later, as do the agencies that enforced it, up to causing an apocalypse.
With some of our fellow gun owners HELPING them.

December 6, 2010 at 1:51 AM  
Blogger Tam said...

There is no such thing as a "Class III owner".

One can have a "Class 3" Special Occupational Taxpayer license, which qualifies one to deal in Title II NFA Weapons as a business...

I believe you mean "NFA weapon owner".

When you say that NFA owners are like Fudds, do you mean this one? Or this one? Or this one? Or any of the dozens of others I know that are busting their asses in the cause of freedom?

Yeah, Knob Creek is just a hotbed of Fuddism.

Divide and conquer, baby...

December 6, 2010 at 3:09 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

One of the reasons for Class III owner disdain for other gun owners is simply money.

You've got to have a lot of money to just own a Class III machine gun, much less actually feed one.

Lots of guys who can afford Class III full autos have exactly the same kind of outlook that guys who own yachts have about guys who own jon boats.

It's also the same kind of outlook that guys who can afford half-million-dollar cars have on guys who own Trans-Ams.

A lot of this is pure and simple snobbery and elitism.

Of course, not even their cozy relationship with the sharks will prevent them from being eaten.

Oh yeah, the sharks might be nice and eat them last.

December 6, 2010 at 3:31 AM  
Blogger Concerned American said...


Thanks for the nomenclature correction.

And pls note that I did not say all NFA weapon owners were on the sidelines.

The good folks you cited are of course all to be commended.

But do you actually contest the point that a majority of full-auto and other NFA owners are no-shows in the trenches, along with a majority of thutty-thutty owners, bird hunters, and pistol owners?

The guy with the flashlight ain't the one who established who's in and who's out.

He's just showing the line of demarcation...

December 6, 2010 at 3:41 AM  
Blogger Tam said...

I'd contend that, taken as a class, NFA owners are far more likely to be "in the trenches" than thutty-thutty owners, bird hunters, pistol owners, or M1A owners. Based on everything I've seen, at least.

Compare the atmosphere at Knob Creek to the one at your local Gun & Knife Collector's Show...

The guy with the Title II Uzi has looked into the eyes of the beast; Uncle Cletus who bought his WASR-10 at Gander Mountain hasn't.

December 6, 2010 at 3:52 AM  
Blogger Tam said...

Anon 3:31,

Leave the class warfare to the Marxists, please.

December 6, 2010 at 3:53 AM  
Blogger Concerned American said...


I've been to enough Knob Creeks hoo-rahs to see your point, though we may be agreeing that the minority of active Fudds is a smaller percentage of that whole than the minority of the whole of active NFA weapon owners.

On the other hand, the Bad People seemed to have upped the ante and gone for the whole economy, rather than just picking on us po' l'il (semi and full-auto) gun owners. So I am not sure that even assuming the majority of NFA weapon owners are active will prove, in the end, to be anything other than an academic point.

Since I read those words, your darned crystal-balling of near-future America as "Sweden with better gun laws" keeps ringing in my ear.

Thanks (I think).


December 6, 2010 at 4:13 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

As one that had a ffl with class III stamp a while back, I agree that many nfa dealers and owners do have an elitist attitude toward the commoners. Partly because they think they have better toys, and because they think they are on the inside, like a special g-man badge. A super Fudd with superior powers to mere mortals. They seem to think that paying the tax and being on THE list immunizes them from the batfags so they want to help like a junior g-man should. Yes, some are our friends, but many are not.

December 6, 2010 at 1:35 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

More importantly, many people in the land of NFA know that being licensed as a SOT doesn't much protect them from a lot of things. Some have disdain for lesser mortals but some are afraid of contact with lesser mortals. I know a SOT that mostly runs a hunting and sport shooting gun shop but does a lot of NFA. I've seen him talk to people like he had no idea what they were talking about when they asked him about buying NFA items when he didn't know them or they looked questionable, even though he had the things asked about in inventory. Some is elitism, some is self-preservation, some has to do with the particular "taxpayer's" politics and friends. Some people in the land of NFA owners are or used to be Federal LEOs, as you might know...

December 6, 2010 at 8:10 PM  
Anonymous Don said...

Hey Tam,

Gotta disagree with you on this one.

I have been around this stuff for a looooong time and have known quite a few Class III holders.

Most of the Class III people I have met are professionals working in many different professions, and most of them that I have met are minimally active, if at all, in Second Amendment affairs... the weapons are more like "big boy" toys they pull out and play with every now and then.

Ahhh, the damage we could do to the anti-gunners if we could get ALL owners in the fight...

December 6, 2010 at 8:26 PM  
Blogger Tam said...


"I have been around this stuff for a looooong time and have known quite a few Class III holders.

Most of the Class III people I have met...

Your terminology is confusing me.

When you say you have known "quite a few Class III holders", do you mean that you have known quite a few FFL holders who deal in NFA weapons (Class 3 SOT's) or quite a few people who own NFA weapons?

Having spent a few years as the sales manager at a Type 07 Class 3 SOT, I consider myself fairly well qualified to comment on this issue. I guess we just know different people...

December 7, 2010 at 4:40 PM  
Blogger Dedicated_Dad said...

Here again it's The Enemy's total control of the Propaganda Ministry which is mostly at fault.

The Fudds see the stories about all these Right Wing Extremists / Domestic Terrorists and... Suddenly they're terrified of being tarred with the same abominable brush.

Most "class III" SOTs are dependent on LE for their livelihoods, and likely see themselves more as "them" than us. Even when faced with clear evidence such as Len Savage or Kwan they manage to rationalize that they must have"gone bad" or some such...

Otherwise they'd be forced to face the fact that they're collaborating with The Enemy and likely to be on the menu themselves someday....

December 7, 2010 at 7:15 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

While Class III weapons owner are chastised I can tell you that SOME of us Class III guys ARE fighting the .gov, just in different ways.

I won a Federal jury trial, in August 2009, for violations of my 1st Amendment Free Speech rights, by my local county government. In turn the county .gov appealed and the good ol' boy Federal judge threw out the jury verdict based on his argument: "the jury didn't know what they were doing."

Next week, I'm before the 3rd Circuit Court of Appeals. Nearly 4 years and tens of thousands of dollars I've spent fighting for "our" rights. Not ONE person has offered me so much as a dollar toward my legal fees. Not one person, not one dollar.

So when you state Class III guys aren't fighting....well, maybe not NFA issues but, perhaps some of us are fighting for our freedom in other ways. And not ONE citizen cares about whatever fight you may be fighting. It will always be you fighting the "man" while your fellow citizens berate your efforts to defend THEIR freedoms.

No....many of us ARE fighting....we just don't have the time or money or much energy to fight EVERYTHING.


December 7, 2010 at 9:32 PM  

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