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Do not give in to Evil, but proceed ever more boldly against it

Friday, October 31, 2008

Knox the Younger Responds

Here:

Philosophical Wars
Written by Jeff Knox
on 10-30-2008 14:19

As expected, and intended, my latest Knox Report column has upset some in the, "All is lost; let's start a shooting war" camp.

It is mind boggling to me that intelligent people could be so short sighted and misguided as to think that killing people and blowing things up is somehow going to make things better for our grandchildren. They seem to think that because only about 5% of the populace supported the idea of seceding from the English Empire back in 1776, that their "magic number" is 3% and they think they have that because some survey suggested that 3% of the population thinks violence against the government is justified or could be justified today.

What they fail to take into account is the "bluster factor" of people who will agree with such a statement, but who don't really mean it, and the radical other side - the people who support the terrorist tactics of the Animal Liberation Front and radical Leftists like Bernadine Dohrn and Bill Ayers.

What I want to know is, where are the Washingtons, Jeffersons, Adamses and Hancocks? Who do these Bozos think is going to lead the new America out of the ashes and back to its Constitutional glory, and why aren't these giants running for public office and leading the political revolution? What do they think China, Russia, Iran, Cuba, Venezuela, and North Korea are going to be doing while their merry little band of terrorists is busy crippling our nation and trying to foment rebellion? What exactly do they expect the "end" of their rebellion to look like? How are our children and grandchildren going to be better off?

Revolution is like cannibalism; it can be justified, but only when there is absolutely no other choice for survival. Anyone who talks revolution but isn't actively and diligently working hard every day to elect quality people to office at every level and to educate the elected officials already in office about their core responsibilities, is just a bag of hot air who would rather talk about sacrificing everything - and possibly act on that talk - than do the hard work and make the sacrifices necessary to solve the problems within the system our founders created.

When our forefathers revolted against English rule, they were in an untenable situation. They had no vote in the legislative body. They had no say in their government. They had no voice in regulatory matters. They were mere subjects and had no means of redressing wrongs.

That is not our situation today. We have a voice. We have a vote. We have the means to talk directly to our elected officials and our fellow citizens, and we have the means to fire politicians who don't listen to our council and to replace them with politicians who understand their jobs.

It is not easy and it is often frustrating, but it is not impossible and our situation is not hopeless. Things might be headed further in the wrong direction with the coming elections, but such swings are part of a pendulum and that pendulum will swing back in our direction again - unless some self-proclaimed freedom fighters screw it all up and convince the majority that liberty is too dangerous and freedom too costly. That's exactly what happened in 1995 when Timothy McVeigh decided that he was going to get the revolution rolling by blowing up a federal building in Oklahoma City. The pendulum was already swinging back to the right. The public was fed up with the federal government's anti-liberty actions and had sent a large crop of, mostly very conservative, mostly firs-time politicians to Washington to start straightening out the mess. The "far right" was building and growing and, while there was a loud "lunatic fringe" element to the militia movement, the overall motion was in the right direction - until McVeigh took his action.

The destruction of the Murrah Federal Building caused a backlash that continues today. Where once "unorganized militias" and groups calling themselves "patriots" with a focus on the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence, suddenly there were empty shells and the name "patriot" became tainted and remains suspect to this day.

Timothy McVeigh - and the gun show philosophers who fueled his misguided sense of patriotism - did more to hurt the cause of liberty than Janet Reno and Bill Clinton could have ever dreamed. One misguided moron with a rifle can do more harm to the fight to restore our gun rights than a thousand Barack Obamas or Hillary Clintons.

So I say to Mike Vanderboegh and those who believe as he apparently does: If you want to start a violent revolution, go do it in Iran, or Cuba, or Mexico, but don't bring you destructive, self-defeating, chest beating into my fight for the Constitution and liberty. If the time comes when we must resort to violence to restore our republic, I will be in the vanguard, but until that time comes, I will dedicate my life - as my father dedicated his life - to using the Constitution, and the rights and limits it illuminates, as the most powerful weapon for preserving it and the republic.

----------------

Be sure to read the column by clicking here and Mike Vanderboegh's rebuttal by clicking here. As America slips into a dark period, it is important to realize exactly who our enemies are on both sides of the political spectrum.


Dear Jeff:

To answer, briefly, your questions below:

...What I want to know is, where are the Washingtons, Jeffersons, Adamses and Hancocks? Who do these Bozos think is going to lead the new America out of the ashes and back to its Constitutional glory, and why aren't these giants running for public office and leading the political revolution? What do they think China, Russia, Iran, Cuba, Venezuela, and North Korea are going to be doing while their merry little band of terrorists is busy crippling our nation and trying to foment rebellion? What exactly do they expect the "end" of their rebellion to look like? How are our children and grandchildren going to be better off?

1) The brave men and women in the realist wing of the RKBA movement are indeed the spiritual equals of the Founders, who, as the shooting part of the First AmRev began, were also considered dangerous radicals and seditionists by their peers. In addition, the realists I know have spent years and many of their personal dollars fighting the political "soft war".

The difference between we realists and you pragmatists is that we have the intelligence to recognize when our tactics are not working and the humility to change course upon that realization.

Moreover, today's members of the Restoration Movement have an advantage the Founders did not. We have the benefit of the Declaration, the Articles, the Constitution, and the Bill of Rights, each as written, to guide us along the way, as well as the painful experience of what happens when the American people allow their political elites to deviate from, and ultimately completely invert, charters that were designed to cage Leviathan, rather than Leviathan's masters.

That hard lesson will be taught, in painful detail and multiple iterations, over the next several years. Collaborators such as yourself - and, sir, you have richly earned that moniker with your McVeigh smear and your closing sentence - will only increase the agonies.

I pray that enough Americans will remain intact at the conclusion of those lessons to ensure that the Beast of unfettered government never again rises.

2) I'm surprised that a lifetime observer of the American political scene such as you still honestly believes that our political system is capable of meaningful reform. I thought you were smarter than that. Perhaps next Tuesday's lessons and their consequences will better illuminate modern America's polity for you.

Perhaps not.

3) As for America's foreign enemies, they will be doing exactly what they already plan to do: exploit to their benefit every aspect of the American Empire's demise. Are you so naive as to think that mass murderers such as the leaders of the countries you named will be deterred from pursuing their national interests by good little citizens such as yourself continuing to play the rigged American political game?

4) Rather than castigate Americans who dare to publicly proclaim the same principled defiance of tyranny expressed by the Founding Generation, why don't you look around at the hordes of domestic enemies slavering to tear flesh from Liberty's carcass?

Why don't you admit that despite the vaunted Heller victory, the lower Federal courts continue to uphold patent infringements of the God-given human right of armed self-defense?

Why won't you see that any "Constitutional right" which is routinely violated pursuant to both Federal law, as well as state and local law in California, New York, Massachusetts, Connecticut, New Jersey, Maryland, Illinois, and scores of other jurisdictions is in fact no "right" at all, but instead a mere whim of those jurisdictions' applicable executives, legislators, and judiciary?

Why can't you understand that the massive amounts of voter fraud being perpetrated in favor of today's collectivist candidates means that each rights-oriented vote is voided on a one-for-one basis?

Why won't you concede that the arc of American freedoms since 1968 has been catastrophically compromised by the collectivists and their facilitators, who counsel at every turn "reason" and "patience" and "working within the system"?

Why won't you admit that you're too scared and too comfortable to stand up to the people who mean to cage you?

5) You ask about the end state sought by the Three Percenters and their allies. I speak for no one but myself, but I can tell you the causes for which I am willing to bleed, and if necessary, die:

- Individual freedom in all aspects, limited only by the same personal and property rights possessed by my neighbor;

- Extremely limited government, with power for all but national/space defense retained and guarded zealously at the state and local level;

- Economic freedom, whereby I keep all but a very small portion of the value of my productivity for myself and my family; and

- To ensure that never again will the most venal of our species gain control over my country, my property, and my freedom, a virtually unlimited right to keep, bear, and use any arms whatsoever, subject only to the caveat of full responsibility for all damages caused by their use.

To these goals inherent in the Restoration of the American Republic, and to the welfare of my American brothers and sisters who have the sand you so sorely lack, sir, I pledge my property, my life, and my sacred honor, so help me God.

In the final analysis, Jeff, it's pretty simple.

Many people will cringe and submit to a whirlwind of indignities simply to preserve their pitiful lives.

Many others, such as the Three Percent, will never do so.

You've made your choice.

Now live with it.

Alea iacta est.

III

18 Comments:

Anonymous Peter said...

Drowning in pragmatism, I am.

Why is it these political arguments are couched in terms of a zero sum game? The choice isn't between America as it is and some 'new improved America 2.0'. We have a perfectly fine Constitution, there's no need to replace it, merely enforce it, with the remedy already provided.

Methinks Knox le fils is a bit too committed to protecting his position and personal comfort. I'm reminded of the old story of the French radical who saw a mob going down the street who exclaimed that he needed to find out where they were going so that he might lead them.

Lead, follow, or get out of the way, Jeff.

III

October 31, 2008 at 7:36 AM  
Anonymous Stephen said...

Well said, Mike, well said.

October 31, 2008 at 11:57 AM  
Blogger Sean said...

Aye, collaborators. Tell me,Jeff me bucko, when they hang you, will you put in a good word for us? As Mike, I pledge my property, my life, and my sacred honor, to the restoration of Liberty, and to my fellow patriots, so help me G*d. I am peaceful,law abiding,and calm. Same as Mike. If we are abused, however.........the teeth come out.III.

October 31, 2008 at 1:04 PM  
Blogger Oldsmoblogger said...

Mr. Knox is the very model of a modern sunshine patriot.

III

October 31, 2008 at 1:48 PM  
Blogger jonathan said...

earth to knox: i can't afford children.

maybe your equally comfortable sons and daughters can, but some of us may have already had the future taken away from us.

October 31, 2008 at 1:49 PM  
Blogger The_Chef said...

The constitution needs to be enforced as it is written. The problem is that there is no way to do that when the courts get to arbitrarily decide what that document means based on it being a "living document".

I don't believe in overthrow of the current system as much as I do some sort of targeted secession.

The problem is that a Galt's Gulch scenario is damn near impossible as most people don't have the moral fortitude to follow through on such an idea.

October 31, 2008 at 1:55 PM  
Blogger jonathan said...

a more constructive jeff knox might be arguing why or why not MBV's articles are themselves constructive, since they are what currently exists, and there is no fighting -- and doesn't have to be.

you don't need to tell differential equations students that they will need to use algebra to pass the course. it's further questionable as to why one would do this in attack mode. the argument for using available nonviolent means does not preclude the open discussion of more violent means.

what is this about "joining the vanguard" once all is lost? how exactly will that be recognizable? did knox consider that working strictly "within the system," he'd have already been disarmed by the time that day comes?

now, one can call the less violent power plays "appealing to the constitution" to solve one's problems, but that is orwellian nonsense. what constitutional republic? it is appealing to runaway bureaucracy.

voting is unjustified aggression. it changes nothing and makes things worse by giving a mandate to the throne to continue violating rights. yet this is exactly what knox describes as being the result of talking about armed resistance. obviously his sense of cause and effect are backwards, too. we probably wouldn't be so angry if people hadn't been voting all this time, jeff.

October 31, 2008 at 2:39 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mr. Knox seems like a pleasant, polite fellow, someone who (although I've never met him) seems to be the kind that is friendly and easy to get along with - and is basically a pro-gun person.

Until...

Until (or so it seems) push comes to shove, which is just about where a lot of people (particularly those who frequent this site, but many, many others, as well) think that we are at. We're on the precipice regarding gun rights, and on Tuesday we may find out that we fallen off and that it is just a matter of time until we hit the bottom (remember, it isn't the fall that kills you, its ending the fall).

The simple fact is, Mr. Knox, that this nation MAY (though I pray not and have voted as such) elect the single most reflexively anti-gun President in history, so anti-gun that he sees no need for handguns, no need to allow for carry permits and probably most kinds of rifles and many shotguns (in civilian hands, that is - he has no problem with those, and very much more lethal hardware, in the hands of those who will take orders from him). He will have a very compliant and ideologically-friendly Congress, and we may well see the nightmare of all gun owners passed - a law requiring the surrendering of most or all of our firearms. Oh, there will be an "amnesty" period, and they may even pay us (from our own tax dollars) a little bit for our hardware. But make no mistake, if such happens, you'll never get them or any replacements back at any price (not with government cooperation or approval, that is). It will be the end - the end of the gun culture, the end of our liberties, the end of the illusion that we don't serve our government. Those in charge will literally be able to do anything that they want to us - and you only have to look at Nazi Germany, Soviet Russia, Red China, Cambodia under the Khmer Rouge, Uganda under Amin and a bunch of other nations during the 20th Century to see what is possible.

Don't say, "But, but, but - THAT could NEVER happen HERE!! This is America!" Spare me. This is a country made up of human beings, all of us fallible, and to even think that no one in a position of power would desire more of it is sheer stupidity. Actually, with the particular individual running for President with a "-D" after his name, it is more probable than not that he will seek VASTLY more power than any of his predecessors. I DO hope that you've heard his 2001 radio interview, in which he effectively said that he resents the limits to power in the Constitution. Doesn't that concern you? If so, then think through the implications. If not, WHY?

So, the basic question is, Mr. Knox, IF such happens, what will YOU do? I don't require an answer (though you've kind of provided one already) - I just want you to think it over, and think as deeply as possible about the significance of such a moment for this nation.

You seem to think that there's an army of people eager to pick up a rifle and take pot-shots at government agents, just for kicks. You know, in a nation of 300 million there probably are a few nuts that actually DO want to do that. But not 99.99% of the population. Those on this site (and those of similar mindset not here) are not, I am quite sure, eager for such a conflict. I think that most of them have either been in the military and can, therefor, understand the enormous destruction that military action can bring. Those who aren't veterans almost certainly have a similar understanding. All of those people have, to one extent or another, tried via the legislative and election process to help solve this problem - and it may all be for nought if this election turns out the wrong way. Basically, all of these people just want to be left alone, since they are basically decent people that just want to live life (and maybe go shooting or hunting every once in a while) on their terms.

However, people like Mike Vanderbaugh have a line in the sand that the government had better not cross. He doesn't WANT them to cross it, he's done all that he can (and will, I'm sure, continue to until it doesn't matter) to persuade the government to stay away from the line - but if it his particular line is crossed then he will undoubtedly feel that he has little choice but to react or become a slave, with the latter not beign an option. By the way, Mr. Knox, most people have such a line - a point where they will no longer tolerate being treated in a particular manner by another person or group of people. Being unique, each of us has our own line - but I'll go out on a limb and state that a law mandating the handing over of some or all of our firearms is over that line for a good many people. Certainly, none of those lining up in gun shops or gun shows these last couple of months is forking over good money for guns, ammo, magazines, etc. just so as to hand them over in a few months time.

So, again, I come back to the question: what will you do, Mr. Knox, if such a law is passed? I hope, at the least, that you will stop condemning those who have enough courage to want to fight a government that would pass such a law, since such a government would have become an enemy of all of the people by such an action. Could you, Mr. Knox, AT LEAST remain silent, and not undercut those who would fight for your rights and those of your children? Honestly, those people would expect, or at least hope for more, but could you at least do that? Because if you cannot, then please don't go around saying that you are pro-gun, or even pro-liberty - because you won't be and everyone will know it. At least for the sake of your self-respect, shut your pie hole.

October 31, 2008 at 3:34 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who
approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. When
you
give up that force, you are ruined."
--- Patrick Henry

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Jeff, if you want to see enemies on both sides, the first place you should check is a mirror. Your group of bootlickers won't get another farthing from me.

October 31, 2008 at 3:34 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

In 1994 when the AWB went into place...was that the trigger? No.

What happens if Obama tries it again and it passes the House, Senate and is signed into law without a sunset this time?

What happens when this bill has language that makes it impossible to sell or transfer existing firearms, but doesn't make existing ones illegal? I.e. Generational Confiscation? Will that be the trigger and the Unintended Consequence?

October 31, 2008 at 6:22 PM  
Anonymous Chris K. said...

This stuff confuses me. I've been ready to hang the bastards for 15 years and I'm only 30 now!
In MV and this site and others like it I have found a group of people who have a similar mindset about individual liberty. If it takes guns confiscation to get the ball rolling for them, I'll wait for that moment.

October 31, 2008 at 10:13 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm not going to identify myself here because I am going to say a couple of things that I don't want the govt to be able to connect to me but many of you would probably recognize my user name as I have responded to many anti gun editorials. If you knew my name you would also know that I have expressed my intention to resist any attempt to disarm me. You would also know that I continue to increase my supply of firearms for WTSHTF and I have a decent supply of ammo, lead, primers, powder, bullet molds, etc., on hand and continue to add to that supply on a daily basis. I have spent thousands (and I do mean THOUSANDS) stocking up. I have indicated that I will shoot the first blue helmet and/or white APC I see in this country That being said I agree with Jeff. However, I also agree with Mike (except I condemn Mike's name calling. Sorry Mike). I can't even begin to tell you how much I hope that we can avoid an armed conflict but I don't think we will be able to. I also believe that we will all know when that time has arrived and many of us will respond. I hope that conflict doesn't happen in my lifetime. When it does, I hope that I am not too old to be of use. McViegh was an idiot who caused us considerable damage. We can't be the ones to fire the first shot but we can be the ones to fire the last shot. We can't expect a lot of support from most people. With that I agree with Jeff. Most people are too comfortable and uninformed and self-absorbed to even realize what is happening around them. Otherwise all of us would have already revolted against the insane taxation we live with and the limits on our freedom. Just this week I was talking to someone at work and he agreed that most people are as frogs in a pot of water and haven't noticed that it has gotten warmer. Most people are oblivious to the current situation and won't become aware of it until it is too late. So, I think we should do as Jeff suggests until it is time to so as Mike suggests. However, Mike, I don't think you will have as much support as you think or hope you will. I know bluster when I hear it and most of the comments I read from those folks who say they are ready for the revolution are just bluster. I'll bet they all have cammies and camelpacks and MOLLE packs and weigh twice what is healthy for them. I see em at the range. In fact, I saw a few of them today. Tricked out rifles, shooting from a bench rest at 50 and 100 yards while I'm hitting a man size target, off hand, at 400 yards. And I would be willing to bet that none of these guys have ever been fired on. And before you ask, yes, I have. Well, there's my two cents.

November 1, 2008 at 5:36 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

McVeigh was misguided.

Had he blown up an IRS building, he might well have become a National hero.

There is still room for such heros.

In the meantime, my suspicion the McVeigh was part of a false flag operation is not entirely quenched. Our government has shown the willingness to execute innocent men, women and children... at Waco... at Ruby Ridge, in Iraq, in Vietnam...

It will only ever stop when those responsible are hauled out into the street and hung by their necks until dead... or shot down running away from justice.

November 1, 2008 at 7:12 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"...solve the problems within the system our founders created."

And where, pray tell, is that system? That system hasn't been seen for decades. In your mind, I'm sure it's still intact. We all love the dream of what America could have been if everyone had stuck to the deal. But we cannot live in the fantasy of what was; we have to live in the actual real world, where freedom via "the system" has a very, very bleak future.

The system the founders established absolutely did and does include overt use of force to restore liberty. You cry for use of the systems that have failed, yet shun the rest of the system as yet untested.

Your dad had good intentions, too. And you sound a lot like him. He was a decent man with high ideals and, like you, a love for the system upon which this nation was founded. He was also equally loathe to rattle a saber, let alone suggest that we draw closer to a time where no other choice remains but to hoist the black flag.

The only actual forceless system in place now is a freight train headed for marxism and already on the outskirts of that town.

Courts uphold illegal laws. The best pro 2A ruling in decades is wrought with lies and gaping holes through which a Schumer-sized Mack truck can and will pass.

Schools teach children that guns are evil and the second amendment means police and the army. Schools ban the children of patriots from wearing t-shirts with a picture of a firearm, for God's sake.

The men at Lexington worked within the system, Mr. Knox. The system is ordained by the Almighty, is innate to all free people, inherent by birthright and is immutable by any mere laws of man.

To be very blunt and direct, were a man to scope one of the many rabid gun banners and shatter a skull with fast-moving lead, that's part of "the system our founders created."

Would that good men at least have the decency to respect the founders enough to include the entire system, rather than just the part that is flatly broken and through centuries of testing has failed.

November 1, 2008 at 12:41 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The point in all this is to try to avoid the necessity of conflict. Neville Knox is making violence more likely, not less. Pacifism and appeasement and signalling weakness to the enemy do that. His (and Snowflake's) way is "working"... until it doesn't, and they're both undermining their own efforts. Carrots without sticks are just desperate bribery.

He's right, along with some of the commenters here, about the level of bluster. On the other hand, those most likely to stand up are also the least likely to go bragging about it on the internet. You can't judge those kind of numbers by taking a poll.

November 1, 2008 at 1:37 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This knox character sounds
like a government collaborator.
The eyes and ears of those
who would trample over our
Rights in the night.
The only "BOZO" is you Knox!
Get out of the way! Get Out!
Turn your guns in to the Man!
No need for people like you
and the Zumbos of this world
to tell us what the 2nd A.
means.

November 1, 2008 at 9:03 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Waco, Ruby Ridge, etc, you forgot Northwoods, approved by the joint chiefs, missed being done by a single signature, documented on a gov site, story here;
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=92662

November 1, 2008 at 11:32 PM  
Anonymous RobertG said...

We shall see. I would think the more likely scenario is the Boys in Da Hood and allied Obaninites coming after us. They I would shoot back.

Who knows how it will play out? The Sons of Liberty we not a revolutionary group: their stated goal was to preserve the Rights of Englishman.

It just did not work out that way. Yes indeed we have a fine Constitution. Deceleration of Independence too. God Bless America and pass the ammunition--just in case.

November 2, 2008 at 2:34 PM  

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