tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2469109905542911409.post5218005919873454603..comments2023-12-23T16:59:19.185+00:00Comments on Western Rifle Shooters Association: Knox the Younger RespondsUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2469109905542911409.post-9758103332852304102008-11-02T14:34:00.000+00:002008-11-02T14:34:00.000+00:00We shall see. I would think the more likely scenar...We shall see. I would think the more likely scenario is the Boys in Da Hood and allied Obaninites coming after us. They I would shoot back.<BR/><BR/>Who knows how it will play out? The Sons of Liberty we not a revolutionary group: their stated goal was to preserve the Rights of Englishman.<BR/><BR/>It just did not work out that way. Yes indeed we have a fine Constitution. Deceleration of Independence too. God Bless America and pass the ammunition--just in case.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2469109905542911409.post-19295601956439668472008-11-01T23:32:00.000+00:002008-11-01T23:32:00.000+00:00Waco, Ruby Ridge, etc, you forgot Northwoods, appr...Waco, Ruby Ridge, etc, you forgot Northwoods, approved by the joint chiefs, missed being done by a single signature, documented on a gov site, story here;<BR/>http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=92662Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2469109905542911409.post-5184734849428096372008-11-01T21:03:00.000+00:002008-11-01T21:03:00.000+00:00This knox character soundslike a government collab...This knox character sounds<BR/>like a government collaborator.<BR/>The eyes and ears of those<BR/>who would trample over our<BR/>Rights in the night. <BR/>The only "BOZO" is you Knox!<BR/>Get out of the way! Get Out!<BR/>Turn your guns in to the Man!<BR/>No need for people like you<BR/>and the Zumbos of this world<BR/>to tell us what the 2nd A.<BR/>means.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2469109905542911409.post-84792041278898746702008-11-01T13:37:00.000+00:002008-11-01T13:37:00.000+00:00The point in all this is to try to avoid the neces...The point in all this is to try to avoid the necessity of conflict. Neville Knox is making violence more likely, not less. Pacifism and appeasement and signalling weakness to the enemy do that. His (and Snowflake's) way is "working"... until it doesn't, and they're both undermining their own efforts. Carrots without sticks are just desperate bribery.<BR/><BR/>He's right, along with some of the commenters here, about the level of bluster. On the other hand, those most likely to stand up are also the least likely to go bragging about it on the internet. You can't judge those kind of numbers by taking a poll.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2469109905542911409.post-3584382672311494982008-11-01T12:41:00.000+00:002008-11-01T12:41:00.000+00:00"...solve the problems within the system our found...<I>"...solve the problems within the system our founders created."</I><BR/><BR/>And where, pray tell, is that system? That system hasn't been seen for decades. In your mind, I'm sure it's still intact. We all love the dream of what America could have been if everyone had stuck to the deal. But we cannot live in the fantasy of what was; we have to live in the actual real world, where freedom via "the system" has a very, very bleak future.<BR/><BR/>The system the founders established absolutely did and does include overt use of force to restore liberty. You cry for use of the systems that have failed, yet shun the rest of the system as yet untested.<BR/><BR/>Your dad had good intentions, too. And you sound a lot like him. He was a decent man with high ideals and, like you, a love for the system upon which this nation was founded. He was also equally loathe to rattle a saber, let alone suggest that we draw closer to a time where no other choice remains but to hoist the black flag.<BR/><BR/>The only actual forceless system in place now is a freight train headed for marxism and already on the outskirts of that town.<BR/><BR/>Courts uphold illegal laws. The best pro 2A ruling in decades is wrought with lies and gaping holes through which a Schumer-sized Mack truck can and will pass.<BR/><BR/>Schools teach children that guns are evil and the second amendment means police and the army. Schools ban the children of patriots from wearing t-shirts with a picture of a firearm, for God's sake.<BR/><BR/>The men at Lexington worked within the system, Mr. Knox. The system is ordained by the Almighty, is innate to all free people, inherent by birthright and is immutable by any mere laws of man.<BR/><BR/>To be very blunt and direct, were a man to scope one of the many rabid gun banners and shatter a skull with fast-moving lead, that's part of "the system our founders created."<BR/><BR/>Would that good men at least have the decency to respect the founders enough to include the entire system, rather than just the part that is flatly broken and through centuries of testing has failed.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2469109905542911409.post-82549512992137047102008-11-01T07:12:00.000+00:002008-11-01T07:12:00.000+00:00McVeigh was misguided.Had he blown up an IRS build...McVeigh was misguided.<BR/><BR/>Had he blown up an IRS building, he might well have become a National hero.<BR/><BR/>There is still room for such heros.<BR/><BR/>In the meantime, my suspicion the McVeigh was part of a false flag operation is not entirely quenched. Our government has shown the willingness to execute innocent men, women and children... at Waco... at Ruby Ridge, in Iraq, in Vietnam...<BR/><BR/>It will only ever stop when those responsible are hauled out into the street and hung by their necks until dead... or shot down running away from justice.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2469109905542911409.post-40944778767410536202008-11-01T05:36:00.000+00:002008-11-01T05:36:00.000+00:00I'm not going to identify myself here because I am...I'm not going to identify myself here because I am going to say a couple of things that I don't want the govt to be able to connect to me but many of you would probably recognize my user name as I have responded to many anti gun editorials. If you knew my name you would also know that I have expressed my intention to resist any attempt to disarm me. You would also know that I continue to increase my supply of firearms for WTSHTF and I have a decent supply of ammo, lead, primers, powder, bullet molds, etc., on hand and continue to add to that supply on a daily basis. I have spent thousands (and I do mean THOUSANDS) stocking up. I have indicated that I will shoot the first blue helmet and/or white APC I see in this country That being said I agree with Jeff. However, I also agree with Mike (except I condemn Mike's name calling. Sorry Mike). I can't even begin to tell you how much I hope that we can avoid an armed conflict but I don't think we will be able to. I also believe that we will all know when that time has arrived and many of us will respond. I hope that conflict doesn't happen in my lifetime. When it does, I hope that I am not too old to be of use. McViegh was an idiot who caused us considerable damage. We can't be the ones to fire the first shot but we can be the ones to fire the last shot. We can't expect a lot of support from most people. With that I agree with Jeff. Most people are too comfortable and uninformed and self-absorbed to even realize what is happening around them. Otherwise all of us would have already revolted against the insane taxation we live with and the limits on our freedom. Just this week I was talking to someone at work and he agreed that most people are as frogs in a pot of water and haven't noticed that it has gotten warmer. Most people are oblivious to the current situation and won't become aware of it until it is too late. So, I think we should do as Jeff suggests until it is time to so as Mike suggests. However, Mike, I don't think you will have as much support as you think or hope you will. I know bluster when I hear it and most of the comments I read from those folks who say they are ready for the revolution are just bluster. I'll bet they all have cammies and camelpacks and MOLLE packs and weigh twice what is healthy for them. I see em at the range. In fact, I saw a few of them today. Tricked out rifles, shooting from a bench rest at 50 and 100 yards while I'm hitting a man size target, off hand, at 400 yards. And I would be willing to bet that none of these guys have ever been fired on. And before you ask, yes, I have. Well, there's my two cents.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2469109905542911409.post-25738126753888660052008-10-31T22:13:00.000+00:002008-10-31T22:13:00.000+00:00This stuff confuses me. I've been ready to hang th...This stuff confuses me. I've been ready to hang the bastards for 15 years and I'm only 30 now!<BR/>In MV and this site and others like it I have found a group of people who have a similar mindset about individual liberty. If it takes guns confiscation to get the ball rolling for them, I'll wait for that moment.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2469109905542911409.post-16595255035030068632008-10-31T18:22:00.000+00:002008-10-31T18:22:00.000+00:00In 1994 when the AWB went into place...was that th...In 1994 when the AWB went into place...was that the trigger? No.<BR/><BR/>What happens if Obama tries it again and it passes the House, Senate and is signed into law without a sunset this time?<BR/><BR/>What happens when this bill has language that makes it impossible to sell or transfer existing firearms, but doesn't make existing ones illegal? I.e. Generational Confiscation? Will that be the trigger and the Unintended Consequence?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2469109905542911409.post-51089559829389050872008-10-31T15:34:00.001+00:002008-10-31T15:34:00.001+00:00"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. ..."Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who <BR/>approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. When <BR/>you<BR/>give up that force, you are ruined."<BR/> --- Patrick Henry<BR/><BR/>"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams<BR/><BR/>Jeff, if you want to see enemies on both sides, the first place you should check is a mirror. Your group of bootlickers won't get another farthing from me.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2469109905542911409.post-70550011597729090122008-10-31T15:34:00.000+00:002008-10-31T15:34:00.000+00:00Mr. Knox seems like a pleasant, polite fellow, som...Mr. Knox seems like a pleasant, polite fellow, someone who (although I've never met him) seems to be the kind that is friendly and easy to get along with - and is basically a pro-gun person.<BR/><BR/>Until...<BR/><BR/>Until (or so it seems) push comes to shove, which is just about where a lot of people (particularly those who frequent this site, but many, many others, as well) think that we are at. We're on the precipice regarding gun rights, and on Tuesday we may find out that we fallen off and that it is just a matter of time until we hit the bottom (remember, it isn't the fall that kills you, its ending the fall).<BR/><BR/>The simple fact is, Mr. Knox, that this nation MAY (though I pray not and have voted as such) elect the single most reflexively anti-gun President in history, so anti-gun that he sees no need for handguns, no need to allow for carry permits and probably most kinds of rifles and many shotguns (in civilian hands, that is - he has no problem with those, and very much more lethal hardware, in the hands of those who will take orders from him). He will have a very compliant and ideologically-friendly Congress, and we may well see the nightmare of all gun owners passed - a law requiring the surrendering of most or all of our firearms. Oh, there will be an "amnesty" period, and they may even pay us (from our own tax dollars) a little bit for our hardware. But make no mistake, if such happens, you'll never get them or any replacements back at any price (not with government cooperation or approval, that is). It will be the end - the end of the gun culture, the end of our liberties, the end of the illusion that we don't serve our government. Those in charge will literally be able to do anything that they want to us - and you only have to look at Nazi Germany, Soviet Russia, Red China, Cambodia under the Khmer Rouge, Uganda under Amin and a bunch of other nations during the 20th Century to see what is possible.<BR/><BR/>Don't say, "But, but, but - THAT could NEVER happen HERE!! This is America!" Spare me. This is a country made up of human beings, all of us fallible, and to even think that no one in a position of power would desire more of it is sheer stupidity. Actually, with the particular individual running for President with a "-D" after his name, it is more probable than not that he will seek VASTLY more power than any of his predecessors. I DO hope that you've heard his 2001 radio interview, in which he effectively said that he resents the limits to power in the Constitution. Doesn't that concern you? If so, then think through the implications. If not, WHY?<BR/><BR/>So, the basic question is, Mr. Knox, IF such happens, what will YOU do? I don't require an answer (though you've kind of provided one already) - I just want you to think it over, and think as deeply as possible about the significance of such a moment for this nation. <BR/><BR/>You seem to think that there's an army of people eager to pick up a rifle and take pot-shots at government agents, just for kicks. You know, in a nation of 300 million there probably are a few nuts that actually DO want to do that. But not 99.99% of the population. Those on this site (and those of similar mindset not here) are not, I am quite sure, eager for such a conflict. I think that most of them have either been in the military and can, therefor, understand the enormous destruction that military action can bring. Those who aren't veterans almost certainly have a similar understanding. All of those people have, to one extent or another, tried via the legislative and election process to help solve this problem - and it may all be for nought if this election turns out the wrong way. Basically, all of these people just want to be left alone, since they are basically decent people that just want to live life (and maybe go shooting or hunting every once in a while) on their terms.<BR/><BR/>However, people like Mike Vanderbaugh have a line in the sand that the government had better not cross. He doesn't WANT them to cross it, he's done all that he can (and will, I'm sure, continue to until it doesn't matter) to persuade the government to stay away from the line - but if it his particular line is crossed then he will undoubtedly feel that he has little choice but to react or become a slave, with the latter not beign an option. By the way, Mr. Knox, most people have such a line - a point where they will no longer tolerate being treated in a particular manner by another person or group of people. Being unique, each of us has our own line - but I'll go out on a limb and state that a law mandating the handing over of some or all of our firearms is over that line for a good many people. Certainly, none of those lining up in gun shops or gun shows these last couple of months is forking over good money for guns, ammo, magazines, etc. just so as to hand them over in a few months time.<BR/><BR/>So, again, I come back to the question: what will you do, Mr. Knox, if such a law is passed? I hope, at the least, that you will stop condemning those who have enough courage to want to fight a government that would pass such a law, since such a government would have become an enemy of all of the people by such an action. Could you, Mr. Knox, AT LEAST remain silent, and not undercut those who would fight for your rights and those of your children? Honestly, those people would expect, or at least hope for more, but could you at least do that? Because if you cannot, then please don't go around saying that you are pro-gun, or even pro-liberty - because you won't be and everyone will know it. At least for the sake of your self-respect, shut your pie hole.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2469109905542911409.post-50414187711462035132008-10-31T14:39:00.000+00:002008-10-31T14:39:00.000+00:00a more constructive jeff knox might be arguing why...a more constructive jeff knox might be arguing why or why not MBV's articles are themselves constructive, since they are what currently exists, and there is no fighting -- and doesn't have to be.<BR/><BR/>you don't need to tell differential equations students that they will need to use algebra to pass the course. it's further questionable as to why one would do this in attack mode. the argument for using available nonviolent means does not preclude the open discussion of more violent means.<BR/><BR/>what is this about "joining the vanguard" once all is lost? how exactly will that be recognizable? did knox consider that working strictly "within the system," he'd have already been disarmed by the time that day comes?<BR/><BR/>now, one can call the less violent power plays "appealing to the constitution" to solve one's problems, but that is orwellian nonsense. what constitutional republic? it is appealing to runaway bureaucracy.<BR/><BR/><B>voting is unjustified aggression.</B> it changes nothing and makes things worse by giving a mandate to the throne to continue violating rights. yet this is exactly what knox describes as being the result of talking about armed resistance. obviously his sense of cause and effect are backwards, too. we probably wouldn't be so angry if people hadn't been voting all this time, jeff.jonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02615104086703717817noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2469109905542911409.post-67113519550542622492008-10-31T13:55:00.000+00:002008-10-31T13:55:00.000+00:00The constitution needs to be enforced as it is wri...The constitution needs to be enforced as it is written. The problem is that there is no way to do that when the courts get to arbitrarily decide what that document means based on it being a "living document".<BR/><BR/>I don't believe in overthrow of the current system as much as I do some sort of targeted secession.<BR/><BR/>The problem is that a Galt's Gulch scenario is damn near impossible as most people don't have the moral fortitude to follow through on such an idea.The_Chefhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05544443854634465201noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2469109905542911409.post-31622830509328145642008-10-31T13:49:00.000+00:002008-10-31T13:49:00.000+00:00earth to knox: i can't afford children.maybe your ...earth to knox: i can't afford children.<BR/><BR/>maybe your equally comfortable sons and daughters can, but some of us may have already had the future taken away from us.jonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02615104086703717817noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2469109905542911409.post-14238193867764262782008-10-31T13:48:00.000+00:002008-10-31T13:48:00.000+00:00Mr. Knox is the very model of a modern sunshine pa...Mr. Knox is the very model of a modern sunshine patriot.<BR/><BR/>IIIKenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04780425923108876647noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2469109905542911409.post-58434815750457332762008-10-31T13:04:00.000+00:002008-10-31T13:04:00.000+00:00Aye, collaborators. Tell me,Jeff me bucko, when th...Aye, collaborators. Tell me,Jeff me bucko, when they hang you, will you put in a good word for us? As Mike, I pledge my property, my life, and my sacred honor, to the restoration of Liberty, and to my fellow patriots, so help me G*d. I am peaceful,law abiding,and calm. Same as Mike. If we are abused, however.........the teeth come out.III.Seanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18410045398729979497noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2469109905542911409.post-57320217931601201282008-10-31T11:57:00.000+00:002008-10-31T11:57:00.000+00:00Well said, Mike, well said.Well said, Mike, well said.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2469109905542911409.post-22374318213989351222008-10-31T07:36:00.000+00:002008-10-31T07:36:00.000+00:00Drowning in pragmatism, I am.Why is it these polit...Drowning in pragmatism, I am.<BR/><BR/>Why is it these political arguments are couched in terms of a zero sum game? The choice isn't between America as it is and some 'new improved America 2.0'. We have a perfectly fine Constitution, there's no need to replace it, merely enforce it, with the remedy already provided.<BR/><BR/>Methinks Knox le fils is a bit too committed to protecting his position and personal comfort. I'm reminded of the old story of the French radical who saw a mob going down the street who exclaimed that he needed to find out where they were going so that he might lead them.<BR/><BR/>Lead, follow, or get out of the way, Jeff.<BR/><BR/>IIIAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com