Western Rifle Shooters Association

Do not give in to Evil, but proceed ever more boldly against it

Tuesday, September 15, 2009

Overheard in the Shenandoah

If you can reliably hit a man out to 500 yards or more -- and you have the will to do so every single time it is necessary -- you have created a 700,000 square yard "freedom zone" around you.
-- Overheard at a rest area in the Shenandoah Valley coming back from DC

The arithmetic and geometry is simple.

Pi [3.1416] times the square of a circle's radius give you the area of that circle:

3.1416 X 500 yards X 500 yards = 785,400.

Push it to 600 yards and you've got nearly 1,131,000 square yards of liberty.

The skill is attainable with instruction and practice.

The tools are equally attainable.

The will to shoot, hit, reload, shoot, and hit again must come from within, based on a recognition that those targets downrange have earned in spades the match-grade justice coming at high velocity towards them.

The consequences to the Bad People are devastating.




And let's win.

Audentes fortuna iuvat.

UPDATE 0930 EDST 15 SEPTEMBER 2009: A commenter notes:

"you have created a 700,000 square yard "freedom zone" around you."

That is for the 10 or 15 minutes it takes the Helicopter gunship to come within 2 miles of ya. At that point you are toast, and all your dreams evaporate. Just a date check...it's 2009 not 1939.

I agree with the commenter that the Z axis (air threats) is a big problem.

And he failed to add UAVs (both recon and fighting) to the mix.

But think about this:

How many gunships does the OpFor have?

How many UAVs?

How easy is it for the OpFor to maintain their air fleets in the sky over time, let alone add more to deal with a growing insurrection?

Compare the answer to the question above to the ease with which the freedom folks can add new ground assets.

Think "swarms", not "lone wolf".



Blogger George Donnelly said...

I like it. Very nice.

September 15, 2009 at 12:00 PM  
Blogger David Codrea said...


All except for the picture of anti-gun Pokey-Poke touching the rifle.

Are we sure he's allowed to do that?

September 15, 2009 at 1:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"you have created a 700,000 square yard "freedom zone" around you."

That is for the 10 or 15 minutes it takes the Helicopter gunship to come within 2 miles of ya. At that point you are toast, and all your dreams evaporate. Just a date check...it's 2009 not 1939.

September 15, 2009 at 1:26 PM  
Blogger Willorith said...

Project Appleseed is teaching Americans the history of their country and how to shoot rifles. After a Saturday and Sunday at an Appleseed event a participant has the knowledge necessary to hit a man sized target at 500 yards. Normally 10 to 20 percent of attendees will earn their rifleman's badge at an event. Most people take 2-3 events to achieve that honor.

Breda wrote of her experience at an Appleseed event last year. Check it out at the breda fallacy

September 15, 2009 at 2:20 PM  
Blogger George Donnelly said...

Speaking of Appleseed, check out their 2009 schedule. Lots of shoots all around the country. If you're in PA, they have 'em monthly in multiple spots. I'm going to one this weekend. See ya there. Be a rifleman or be a cook. ;D


September 15, 2009 at 2:34 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well that's a lot of free land all someone needs to do is figure out where said air support is fueled and the problem can be made to go away.

Besides I think they don't have enough ordinance to solve thier problem from altitude nor enough cajones to do so at ground level.

September 15, 2009 at 2:57 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I travel all over the country regularly as part of my job, and I hear conversations like this everywhere, all the time. It's becoming so commonplace in some areas that people are talking about it like sports. One soft suburbanite who had never even fired a gun in his life was practically begging me for information on how to arm and prepare himself. Everyone knows it's coming.
Not to flame, but the comment about air support assumes that one would be out in the open, like an idiot, waiting to be killed. Use cover and concealment, or become a martyr for the cause.
The other comment that we should think "swarms" and not "lone-wolf" is a symptom of what I call "tactical tunnel vision". As an army is not made up only of one type of unit, guerrilla resistance fighters must also adapt to different roles as the situation dictates.
A lone-wolf sniper can create a huge no-go zone for enemy forces, causing them to have to avoid an area, or dedicate forces to search and destroy missions to find the sniper. A community of deer hunters with basic tactical knowledge can create a living hell for an enemy, forcing them to either turn up the heat, which would further alienate the populace, or withdraw and admit defeat.
Active cells with highly skilled and motivated operators can bleed the enemy with a thousand cuts and withdraw into the no-go zone. Whatever the enemy does is either going to cost them PR points or casualties, or both.
I don't think most American soldiers would even participate in a war against their own people, and even though cops would eagerly fire on civilians, because of their existing adversarial relationship, they would learn quickly, by the hard way, to stick to parking tickets and domestic disputes.

September 15, 2009 at 3:19 PM  
Anonymous zach said...

About that Z axis, the empire is going to loose (eventually) in Afghanistan, where nobody cares about collateral damage: "So a raghead wedding was hit by a missile, so what?" Here, the regime is going to have to be more careful. They're going to have to rely on ground troops, not air support.

September 15, 2009 at 3:37 PM  
Blogger Sean said...

Must have caught Pokey-Poke for the picture, in between him beating the crap out of someone.

September 15, 2009 at 3:52 PM  
Anonymous Wild Deuce said...

Those pilots have to land and rest sometime. Those birds get thirsty too and someone has to drive the fuelers. Someone somewhere has to tell those birds where to go and what to shoot.

September 15, 2009 at 4:18 PM  
Blogger Gun Monkey said...

Who exactly has "Gunships"? Where do they keep them when they are not in flight? Are there any locations within 600 yards of those grounded Helicopters?

Flying a Helicopter takes alot of training, and I'm sure the pool of willing pilots would shrink quickly after they start getting lead poisoning.

Are they going to just kill everyone in the area where the suspected shots came from, or can they somehow identify a "Rightwing terrorist" out of a crowd.
"Anonymous" needs to learn the lessons of Insurgency and then consider how much more difficult it will be when the Insurgents are people who look just like you and in some cases are your very own brothers and sisters.

September 15, 2009 at 4:36 PM  
Anonymous Doc Enigma said...

When adding "The Tiger's Way" as promulgated by H.John Poole, the rifleman's ability to control a given area is vastly increased, especially when extrapolated by the number of team members involved in a particular AO.

And as far as gunships go...they have to land somewhere, sometime, and the crews have to get out and take a leak. When they do that, our ground teams should be there...waiting.

UAV's? They have operators. Our ground teams have eyes. It'll take time, but they'll be found.

Patience is the key here. Going toe to toe is just plain suicidal.

Just some random thoughts on the post and comments...

September 15, 2009 at 4:44 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anon 1:26pm says "That is for the 10 or 15 minutes it takes the Helicopter gunship to come within 2 miles of ya."

There aren't assets to keep birds in the sky like this everywhere (even in the 'Stan's), let alone to bother Americans out for a walk with a rifle.

Oregon could use some "Freedom Zones" in our State and National Forests to discourage them from being used as private Mexican Mafia run pot/meth farm/labs.

The Fed's fly UAV's over, can't miss the grid of alien green plants and piles of filth generated by sloppy camping/poaching, and do nothing.

September 15, 2009 at 5:32 PM  
Blogger David said...

Ever been to OSH for the annual EAA convention? A lot (dare I say 60%!?) are like minded people and have the ability to bring a fairly decent "air force" to like minded efforts.

September 15, 2009 at 10:48 PM  
Anonymous straightarrow said...

"Flying a Helicopter takes alot of training, and I'm sure the pool of willing pilots would shrink quickly after they start getting lead poisoning."

The pool may shrink, but I do not believe for the reason you have stated. Our side won't be the only side with courage. And helicopter pilots have proven over many years to have bucket loads of guts flying into and out of hot LZ repeatedly.

If that pool shrinks, and I think it will, it will be because some of them will align with the side of liberty.

September 15, 2009 at 11:33 PM  
Blogger pdxr13 said...

No shortage of courage in USAF or USA helicopter pilots (or anyone who rides a rotary-winged thing as a job), but there is a shortage of hardware end-units (which means to me a serious shortage of pipeline parts, and a semi-shortage of skilled mechanics to keep these deathtraps airborne). It all comes down to a shortage of cash and/or long-term command emphasis on this area. Want to travel somewhat safely in the 'Stans? You need helicopters with miniguns and an extra chopper to do overwatch while yours lands for 30 seconds.

Fewer military rotary-wing assets than on 9/11/2001...From the horses' mouth:

Helicopters aren't sexy. They're slow, ugly and a pain in the ass to maintain. So of course, the Air Force loathes helicopters and the crews that fly and fix them. They aren't F-22s or F-35s or even C-130s, for that matter. We've always been the red-headed stepchild in the Air Force and it doesn't get much better in the other branches of the DoD. Every helicopter pilot, no matter where they are or what branch they fly for, knows the feeling I'm talking about - risking your life, year after year, only to be told "Hey, you're not that special, so don't even think about asking for newer helicopters or more personnel". It's all part of the job but that doesn't make it any easier to take sometimes.

So here we are, coming up on the 8 year anniversary of 9/11. We actually have less rotary wings assets now than when the WTC and Pentagon got hit, it's one of those little secrets in the DoD that is easy to prove (just count the number of helicopters, nothing to it) but hard to justify (closing the Pave Low squadrons and getting rid of 25 years of corporate knowledge is akin to that old metaphor about works of art - it takes an artistic genius a decade to create a statue, but it only takes an idiot with a hammer seconds to destroy it).

Who pays the price for that kind of neglect and poor planning? Sadly, it is units like 2 Rifles that pay the price. God bless them and all the other frontline units like them and save them from the foolishness of their leadership...

Pave Low John
AFSOC helo guy since 1995

September 16, 2009 at 4:55 AM  
Anonymous Temnota said...

When the z-axis question comes up, I remind people that they may be working from the wrong paradigm. The stereotypical image of the "right-wing militia type", to borrow their pejorative, is the guy in cammies creeping through the woods, and in a limited sense, like training, that may be valid. If you think about how a conflict against people with air assets might unfold, however, you realize that humans tend to live in communities, and the sorts of people and objects that might be targets are in communities, and that's where the conflict will occur, not out in the backwoods. A camouflaged militiaman in a community is more likely to look like a taxi driver or a guy out walking his dog than the iconic soldier image.

Now, put yourself in the place of a helo gunship pilot, hovering over Hannibal, MO. You know there's an insurgent group in town, and you know how many, but not exactly where. Your sensors are alive with human activity, where do you aim? You can't just shoot the town up, the illusion of legitimacy has to be maintained, what do you do?

All those gee-whiz weapons in the arsenal have limitations. Learn what they are, and how to take advantage of them, and those weapons become a lot less scary.

September 16, 2009 at 11:10 AM  
Anonymous Happy D said...

Gunship must first find you.

September 16, 2009 at 12:07 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

So who refines and transports the gas to fuel the trucks that brring the JP-4 to the heliports? Logistics trains are very vulnerable, and any air assets need HUGE logistics trains. And who protects the major transmission lines that bring the power to the refineries and the pumping stations and the homes of the pilots, while the whole country is up in arms? Look up "phase shifters" for major transmission lines - takes about 9 months and a couple million bucks to replace one of those. Can you say "grid collapse", boys and girls?

September 16, 2009 at 5:50 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The whole scenario of the helicopter depends on whether or not you hang around so they can find you. Plus you have the terrain factor like hiding in a heavy wooded area or going underground

Out of all of the comments no one suggested a way to bring down a whirly Bird.

September 16, 2009 at 10:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

pdxr13 - PaveLow: The greasy gray hover-bus for all your aerial battle-taxi needs.

Hurlburt Field 1995-97
Mildenhall 1997-2002
Mildenhall 2004-2007

I get to drive by the damn things often here at Davis-Monthan. Brings a tear to my eye every time.

Having said that, after working 'em for a while, you should have a good idea of how to take them down, if required....
Me, I know the engines and drive train (and electrics and hydraulics) pretty well.


September 17, 2009 at 5:51 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said:
"Out of all of the comments no one suggested a way to bring down a whirly Bird."

And most of us patriotic Americans who know how to down a U.S. helo WON'T tell... until/unless it becomes utterly neccesary. You'll know when that is. And it ain't yet. God willing, it never will be.


September 17, 2009 at 5:54 AM  
Blogger John Higgins said...

You're kinda screwed if you're standing in the middle of a 500-yard circle shooting at whatever moves, anyway.

It should never come to armed skirmishes so long as other options are available. Targeted assassinations, hit-and-runs (maybe even LITERALLY hit-and-runs, as in with a car), only standing your ground when there's nowhere to run.

Anyone with a shovel and some logs can build a structure that'll keep their ass intact through an air strike, BTW.

September 17, 2009 at 12:05 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


I get what you are saying, and why.

But what is your plan to get your knowledge out to folks who will need it when it is time?

September 17, 2009 at 2:37 PM  
Anonymous Happy D said...

Anonymous said...
Out of all of the comments no one suggested a way to bring down a whirly Bird.
I will give you a hint to one trick.
Find out how a barrage balloon works to kill aircraft.
Now think about harpooning a whale.
This is a high personal risk tactic. It is also something you can learn on a cable channel so I don't think I am putting anyone at increased risk.

September 21, 2009 at 8:31 AM  

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