Western Rifle Shooters Association

Do not give in to Evil, but proceed ever more boldly against it

Saturday, January 8, 2011

Of Oaths & Loyalties

TL Davis has been getting multiple pings from FedGov types for this essay.

Must be hitting a nerve somewhere.

Alvie throws in as well.

The word of the day is "countervalue".

Think on it.


Anonymous Defender said...

The purpose of government and everyone in it is to protect the rights and freedom of the people. That is its only valid reason for existing. That is the oath government employees take. The rights and freedom of the people, by upholding, protecting and defending the Constitution, not the power and prestige of your supervisors. Let me ask government employees of any kind, including law enforcement and the military: How did you feel watching Hollywood celebrities in that public service announcement video pledging "to serve President Obama" instead?
If you understand America, you understand how wrong that was.

January 8, 2011 at 5:24 AM  
Blogger Dennis308 said...

"Fair Warning to Collectivists"

Is One of if not the Best Blog Articles I have ever read and it would do Any LEO from All Agencies to read it, take a look at the historical facts that support it,and then make up their mind about witch way THEY are Facing.

Hats off to Alvie on that one.


January 8, 2011 at 5:27 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

For some reason, I couldn't post over there, so I'll do so here.

There are folks that work for those alphabet agencies that take their oaths very seriously. I'm one of them.

I read WRSA and other blogs daily. I'm sure a lot of those hits to these blogs come from guys like me who may have a few minutes during lunch break or whatever to make the rounds of their favorite blogs. This comment may generate a hit from DHS.

Just wanted to say, we exist too, and we also watch.

January 8, 2011 at 5:31 AM  
Blogger Concerned American said...


Freedom-loving Americans are counting on you.

January 8, 2011 at 5:38 AM  
Blogger Arctic Patriot said...

Anon 5:31-

Thank you.

I am heartened to hear from someone to whom the word honor means something.

Stay safe.



January 8, 2011 at 5:42 AM  
Anonymous Brass said...


What are you advocating?

Or are you merely pointing out that the animals in the State, who have no God except Power, have no problem killing non-aggressor civilians to further their agendas? Kind of like they did in Dresden, Hamburg and Tokyo?

January 8, 2011 at 12:48 PM  
Anonymous GardenSERF said...

I'm glad Anonymous already made the point which reinforces the last sentence from my post on 1-2-11:

"There are mid-level people who will see the hypocrisy and join us."

They, like I did, see systemic problems. Then we looked around to see if anyone else noticed and more importantly gave a cr@p.

So here we are.

January 8, 2011 at 1:36 PM  
Anonymous Mark Matis said...

For Concerned American:

Sir, you ARE correct. But based on repeated past performance, their faith is grossly misplaced.

My usual closing goes here.

January 8, 2011 at 1:38 PM  
Blogger Concerned American said...


What do you mean by "non-aggressor civilians"?

The clerk that processes the annual FedGov grant to the local PD's SWAT team?

The local zoning officer who enforces the FedGov toilet-flush regulations?

The school-board administrator who chooses textbooks for the local public school that teaches "American history" starting in 1877?

The state university prof who indoctrinates his undergrad students in the gospel of Howard Zinn and Saul Alinsky?

The local electronics tech who maintains the x-ray "security screening tools" for the roving DHS roadblocks and mall checkpoints?

January 8, 2011 at 5:30 PM  
Anonymous Kerodin said...

CA Stated: What do you mean by "non-aggressor civilians"?

The clerk that processes the annual FedGov grant to the local PD's SWAT team?

The local zoning officer who enforces the FedGov toilet-flush regulations?

The school-board administrator who chooses textbooks for the local public school that teaches "American history" starting in 1877?

The state university prof who indoctrinates his undergrad students in the gospel of Howard Zinn and Saul Alinsky?

The local electronics tech who maintains the x-ray "security screening tools" for the roving DHS roadblocks and mall checkpoints?

This is 98% of the problem we face in Restoration, perfectly captured in a few sentences.

Genocide is not the answer, which is exactly what many who consider a "Red Dawn" scenario will be.

I think the proper consideration of CV, for our purposes, works on the remedies of the bureaucratic functioning of those who mean to be Masters.

If the technician who fixes scanning equipment refuses to work on Government contracts because he has been awakened, that is one success in our 1:85 quota.

If the same technician does not go to work on the same machine out of personal selfish reasons (rather than an awakening), that works too.

Those who focus merely on CF of going toe to toe with LEO are missing the huge machinery in the background that makes the Stack possible.

Some folks consider my 1:85 ratio too high. When one looks at all of the public and private sector people who do jobs that are essential for the success of our enslavement, add the number of people who support enslavement through their vote and donations to groups like Brady, the number may still be too low.

Ultimately, and I know there is resistance to the idea in our community, the Stack at your door was sent and exists because a politician has voted to make it happen.

Replace our politicians, one seat at a time, and the Stack will go away.


January 8, 2011 at 6:15 PM  
Blogger Dennis308 said...

Anon 05:31
Wish you and your/our real brothers and sisters well, and thanks.


January 8, 2011 at 8:40 PM  
Anonymous Defender said...


Congresswoman Giffords of Arizona shot, a staffer killed, at a "town meeting" with constituents at a shopping center.
Things could get very interesting very fast.

January 8, 2011 at 9:13 PM  
Blogger Arctic Patriot said...

Very good response, CA. Thought provoking.

We should all examine our places in life and our complicity in what we claim to struggle against.


January 8, 2011 at 9:23 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yes, same anonymous as above.

Mark Matis, you are 100% correct. DO NOT place any faith in any level of government.

From where I sit and observe I would say there are at least 50% of the Gov employees do not care one way or the other. Possibly as high as 75%. They are just collecting a paycheck. 5% to 10% are power hungry dictatorial types who would step on anyone to get where they want to be. Unfortunately they do get to places of authority on occasion. The rest of the folks I believe do care, and do what they can when they can. Having someone in the room who understands the Constitution and isn't afraid to quote it, well, more often than not it works. When that small minority is completely absent from the room, all bets are off.

January 8, 2011 at 11:16 PM  
Blogger Pat H. said...

As a total digression, I want to say how pleased I am that you posted an image of the US Marine Corps current issue bayonet. The only bayonet of which I'm aware is the Italian issue Extrema Ratio, which must be viewed in person to understand why it's the best in the world.

Okay, back to the regularly scheduled subject of this thread.

January 8, 2011 at 11:57 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

And you still believe them when they say they are just 'visiting'? Since when can you believe a word they say? They have shown us for years now this SWAT mentality in dealing with everything they do. Kick the doors in, shoot the dogs, destroy everything in sight and then leave without ever acknowledging they may have done something wrong. Look at the video from Seattle with the Indian woodcarver. Look at all the drug raids gone bad. Evil people running wild with guns.
Yes, I also know a few good ones, but I can honestly say that I do not know at what point they will quit. Or help the people.
To me they will always be the Gestapo.


January 9, 2011 at 12:54 AM  
Anonymous Brass said...

Concerned American,

Yes. I consider all but one of them "non-aggressor" civilians insofar as their aggressions are not immediate and proximate, and therefore do not merit a violent response. The trigger pullers, the gropers and the porn-scanner viewers themselves are immediate and proximate aggressors.

If you think someone else using books or teaching ideas you don't agree with merits a death sentence, you're a maniac.

January 9, 2011 at 1:26 AM  
Blogger Concerned American said...


Vicarious Liability For Accomplices & Coconspirators

The evolution of individual criminal responsibility under international law

Are you a government worker, Brass?

January 9, 2011 at 1:39 AM  
Anonymous Brass said...

Concerned American,

I do not work for the State. Nor have I ever worked for the State. I'm an anarcho-capitalist, as a matter of fact. (Please initiate mocking/straw man sequence now, commenters.) State workers are the ones encouraging violence. It justifies their existence. You should know that.

But I do understand basic morality. What's more, I understand practicality and the concept of return on investment. Your ideas of killing Marxist professors (or simply trying to kill the beast from the top down) are bound to fail, from both a moral and a practical standpoint.

History shows that many of the tax-feeders whose demise you seem to advocate have actually been using their power to undermine the efforts of the State. French and Czech arms and munitions workers routinely sabotaged their work. But you'd have them killed as "collaborators." Oskar Schindler saved dozens, if not hundreds of Jews. But you'd have snuffed him, because you wouldn't have known that. He was just another dirty, Nazi, profiteering Jew-enslaver. You probably would have iced Raoul Wallenberg, Albert Goering (Hermann's brother) and Chiune Sugihara, too. (After all, Sugihara worked as a bureaucrat for the evil Japanese Empire.)

Do you want the current corrupt system to disintegrate? So do I. But through moral and effective means. And there is no quick and easy means. If you convince enough people to withhold all support, material and moral, from the State, it will collapse overnight. But you start killing pencil-pushers and professors, and I guarantee that you will discover that you are regarded by the majority of the population as a mere pesky germ for which the body politic is developing an antibody. The State is not kept going by those tax-feeding bureaucrats, Concerned. The State is actually kept going by the all the ignorant people who are foolish enough to give it their support. And you will not cure their ignorance with violence. And you will never change their minds by using violence against the pencil-pushers. In their minds, the majority equate the State and its lackeys with order and normalcy. You start attacking people who aren't obviously and directly aggressing against non-violent people, and you will turn them against your cause so fast it will make your head spin. You will, in their minds, be a proponent of chaos. And you will fail. All because you did not understand the root cause of the injustice of the State. Which is sin, first of all. (Read 1 Samuel 8.) The next cause of the injustice of the State is the existence of the State itself. (Read Edmund Burke's "Vindication of Natural Society.) A State that uses money taken at gunpoint from non-aggressors to protect their rights is an intrinsic contradiction. Ideas have consequences, Concerned American. You, and everyone who reads this blog, have the potential to accomplish great things. You also have the potential to cause tremendous amounts of unnecessary suffering because of the ideas which you hold and promote. Which route you take is your decision. (Continued)

January 9, 2011 at 3:49 AM  
Anonymous Brass said...

. . . Continued

These may be just a "bunch of words" to some of you, who want to hone your knives to collect some scalps because you mistakenly think that your actions will hasten the arrival of freedom. Some of you may simply want bloodshed. Revenge. But your actions won't hasten the arrival of freedom. Like the person who pours water on a grease fire, your good intention does not compensate for the action's inability to bring about your intended end. It's about reality, and how reality works. The reality is that we did not get to where we are through violence. We got here because the majority of people were sinful and stupid, and they enabled people to usurp their freedom and infringe their rights. They wanted security and surrendered their liberty. They wanted the easy life. Because we did not come to the current situation by violence, the reality is that you will not fix it by the use of violence. The system of injustice is going to collapse because it is not in accord with human nature. Human nature will not stand tyranny forever. But you will not hasten its collapse by acting the ideas which you have proposed.

I strongly encourage you to read the following. They are more than just a bunch of fancy words, whether you recognize them as such or not.

Formal and Material Cooperation: Formal, Proximate Material and Remote Material cooperation.


Principles of Formal and Material Cooperation:


January 9, 2011 at 3:50 AM  
Blogger Concerned American said...


I appreciate your thoughtful comments. I really do.

But they seem in conflict with with 6,000 years of so-called civilization.

Force, violence, and slavery are the constants.

Human freedom and political liberty as was found (albeit in flawed and incomplete form) in the old Republic is the extreme anomaly.

The reason why enough folks have not and will not "withdraw their consent" is exactly because of the force possessed by the state.

That force and its threatened use is coincident with a sense of invulnerability.

Nor are the pencil pushers and theoreticians innocent.

How many actual triggers did Eichmann pull?





Pol Pot?

And the majority of bureaucrats who worked in support of each of their efforts?

Thought not.

Here's a sincere question -- at what point will you know whether or not your path is working?

January 9, 2011 at 4:10 AM  
Anonymous Brass said...

"But they seem in conflict with with 6,000 years of so-called civilization.

Force, violence, and slavery are the constants."

I think you are missing an unbelievably huge historical event.

Institutionalized full-ownership slavery (as opposed to the 50% slavery today) was a constant. Until the 19th Century, where it disappeared from every civilized country in the world, almost completely without violence (except in the United State, and we know the war wasn't to end slavery, it was to make sure we all served the same Master.)

Again, how did the institution of full slavery disappear after over ten thousand years? Not through violence, but through an increased understanding of what it means to be human, and a respect for that human nature. Ideas, not violence, caused the collapse of slavery. You want to go the John Brown route. What he did wasn't wrong (he wasn't planning on attacking bureaucrats) But it was bound to fail.

"The reason why enough folks have not and will not "withdraw their consent" is exactly because of the force possessed by the state.

That force and its threatened use is coincident with a sense of invulnerability."

The reason that enough folks have not and will not withdraw their consent is because they have no spine. They stand for nothing besides their right to watch TV and drink cheap beer. They have no principles. They have no ideals. Who fights on behalf of a principle that isn't there? Do you think that lone man standing in front of that tank at Tienanmen square gave a damn how much force would be exerted against him? If one quarter of China's population had the bravery of that man, they'd be free. It's not about how much force the other side has. It's how much support they're given.

"Nor are the pencil pushers and theoreticians innocent.

How many actual triggers did Eichmann pull?"

Innocent? I never said that pencil pushers were completely innocent. Worthy of death? No. If you had posted the second half of my other post and read the links, you'd have your answer to the litany of tyrants you enumerated. Eichmann and his ilk were a formal cooperants and proximate material cooperants. As such, it is open season for such men. Do you shoot the people who are cheering on a beatdown, such as the one that took place in the DC metro recently? Or do you take out the people who are actually effecting the unjust beatdown?

Judging who is guilty of what and doing violence against them is not your role. That's God's role. Your role is to neutralize immediate and active PHYSICAL threats against human beings. I don't care if someone is retarded and not morally responsible for his actions: if he's doing violence to someone unjustly, he'll be stopped. Not because he's a "bad man," but because he poses a threat. The same reason you put down a rabid dog.

Where will you stop, Concerned American? All schoolteachers who don't teach the history of the Second Amendment the way you want them to? The janitors in the ATF building? The people who serve food to SWAT team members? Would you go so far as to kill their kids? After all, it would demoralize them, right? Would you do that? If you neutralize only active/proximate threats, I guarantee, you can avoid all those questions (and the morally abhorrent answers to those questions.)

January 9, 2011 at 4:46 AM  
Anonymous Brass said...

As for your last question: How will I know when my path is working? My path, "anarchy," is working whenever you see two people engage in a voluntary, mutually-beneficial behavior. I love it when traffic lights go out, because I love to see "anarchy" in action: people making allowances for each other and taking turns, and actually turning the intersection into a much faster passage for everyone involved. My path is wherever people are not sticking guns to each other's heads to force them to do what they do not want to do and have no obligation to do.

I don't expect to bring about a huge cultural shift on my own, Concerned. I'm not a wild-eyed zealot. I believe that initiating aggression (including by voting for politicians to take money from other people at gunpoint) is morally wrong, but that I cannot change it by killing people who vote. So I try to convince people, one at a time, that the State, by its very nature, destroys freedom, destroys productivity, enlarges itself, does violence to innocents, and ultimately slaughters people on a huge scale. I've had some success convincing some individuals. I do it for their sake, primarily. I help them free their own minds, so they can help others, and so they themselves pose less of a threat to their neighbors.

200,000,000 people died violent deaths in the 20th Century. That is something no individual or group of individuals could have done without the ability to A) tax and B) conscript. And they wouldn't have that ability if the majority of people had principle and refused to support the State. So without at least a solid minority of people with principle, all your snuffing bureaucrats will accomplish nothing but delaying the inevitable collapse of the State under its own weight, and based on its own intrinsically corrupt nature, which is contrary to human nature.

Sound theory must guide all actions. Your actions are not based upon sound theory. You're throwing water on a grease fire if you elect to "snuff bureaucrats."

January 9, 2011 at 4:58 AM  
Blogger Concerned American said...


Sorry re the second half. Blogger called it spam and I had to go and release it.

Slavery abolished?

In China today?

In Africa today?

In Indonesia, Saudi, and elsewhere in the dar-al-Islam?

How about here? Think the fact that the .govs let you keep maybe 60% or 50% of your earnings means you're 60% or 50% free?

So Eichmann and the rest are ok....what about their drivers? Their cooks? Their secretaries? Their organizational subordinates?

Again, sir, at what point will you know whether or not your path of withheld cooperation will work or not?

January 9, 2011 at 5:02 AM  
Anonymous Brass said...

Concerned, if you look again, you'll see I did qualify my statement by saying slavery was abolished in "civilized countries." Barbarians will always act like barbarians. But even in the few countries where it is prevalent, it is almost always at least technically illegal. In 1200, there was no such protection. If you look through history, you will see a litany of Popes condemning all race-based slavery. Even before Pope Gregory in 1413. It took a while for those ideas to gain traction, but they did. Slavery was abolished primarily on religious grounds. Note: it was not abolished by force. Ideas. Ideals. Principles. That is what effected the end of slavery in every land that ended slavery.

As for the 50% slavery of taxation, do you expect violence to eradicate this slavery? It didn't go well for John Brown, and it certainly didn't go well for Edward and Elaine Brown in New Hampshire. Until a large minority or a majority have enough principle, you will continue to see taxation, and not even violence on a huge scale against revenuers could change that. Do you acknowledge that fact? They would destroy all the resistance.

You must undermine support for the State. You don't go up against a fortress by trying to blast through the walls, you slowly and surely dig UNDER it, and it will collapse under its own weight.

Eichmann's driver and cooks? Why aren't you killing Eichmann? Do you think they won't replace the driver and the cook? They're completely expendable. You're straining out the gnat and swallowing the camel.

"Again, sir, at what point will you know whether or not your path of withheld cooperation will work or not?"

If you post my other post (perhaps also spam filtered?) you will have the first answer. But I will say that I don't think I understand what you're asking. What do you mean by "Work?" I don't have a master plan. I don't expect dramatic results. I've got a keyboard with which I can try to reach and inspire others. I've witnessed people saying things I'd never believed I would see, espousing ideas that just 10 years ago were called utterly insane, but which are becoming mainstream. "End the Fed" is a watchword now. The gold standard is starting to gain traction. People aren't saying "Your rights come from the government" nearly as much as they did. They recognize that rights come from God, not from some document. Philosophical anarchism and Austrian economics are becoming far more mainstream. The support for police is nowhere near as blind as it used to be. I can see the changes, sir. As I said a few days ago, it takes a lot of seemingly insignificant rumblings before those rumblings manifest themselves in a tsunami. It may be a trip of thousands of miles, but there is progress being made. I can see it working. As you saw, Prince Charles and his wife were recently surrounded by a crowd of people saying "off with their heads!" The winds of change are blowing.

January 9, 2011 at 5:26 AM  
Anonymous basil marceaux said...

this is basilmarceaux.com a real american! one who took 12 stuns to fix the u.s. flag and made an ass of himself on election day as a candidate for tn governor. i'm also one of the best soldiers in the nation a force recon marine civilian with agent orange i have a protect and defend oath.

no one keep their's oath in u.s.
except for me

marceaux for president 2012
fix our nation by getting ele

April 18, 2011 at 5:06 AM  

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