Western Rifle Shooters Association

Do not give in to Evil, but proceed ever more boldly against it

Friday, September 10, 2010

Vanderleun: What I Saw - Notes Made On September 11, 2001 From Brooklyn Heights

Read it all.

My cousin Chip was on duty as a New York City firefighter.

He and six other men of Engine 6 were murdered that day.

Requiescat in pace.

No submission.


Islam delenda est.


Blogger Pat H. said...

I feel for those who lost loved ones on 11 September, 2001; the same way I feel about anyone that loses their kin as a result of criminal activity, but must say I do NOT feel as if "we" were attacked on that day.

I am a unReconstructed Confederate. We of the South attempted to leave leviathan one hundred and forty years ago because we knew what leviathan was and where the Union government was headed.

Make no mistake, the attacks on 11 September, 2001 were a direct result of the merchantilism of the US government, 80 years worth of that activity.

It is not anti-American to state that fact, it is reality.

We have nearly 200 years of unConstitutional government to change. Continuing to lie to ourselves about what that government is doing externally in addition to the internal activities serves no one but that government.

Pat H.
Board of Governors
Southern National Congress

September 10, 2010 at 10:39 PM  
Blogger Concerned American said...


My reaction to 9/11 was and continues to be a tribal one: another tribe came and effed with my tribe.

I get completely that Team America has been effing with other tribes (including the Southern one) for a long time.

My concern with Islam is that by ideological/theological definition, that tribe will NOT leave others alone if they are not bothered.

There's 1300 years of evidence in support of that belief.

Not many folks are rigged for a return to medieval tribalism combined with technology.

But that is where this country and this world is headed.

Tribe up and gun up.

It ain't gonna be pretty.

September 10, 2010 at 10:55 PM  
Blogger sofa said...

"Islam delenda est."

So let it be written. So let it be done.

September 11, 2010 at 12:57 AM  
Anonymous typeay said...


September 11, 2010 at 2:45 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I will fly my flag tomorrow(9/11). I will also fly it on Constitution Day and December 7th. I will fly it on Washington's birthday(but not Presidents' Day).
The bile that rose in my throat and the tears that welled up in my eyes on September 11th, 2001 have been tempered by the actions of the federal government and how they used this manufactured event(due to our constant meddling in other nations' affairs)to increase their internal control of us, and to keep the military-industrial complex alive and well-funded.
Now, here we are nine years later and Bin Laden is still at large, we have squandered billions in treasure and thousands of lives in Iraq and Afghanistan. We have maimed veterans, no jobs, a tanking economy, a brain-dead electorate, and a collectivist dwarf mayor of NYC who wants to desecrate the hallowed ground of the WTC with a mosque. I guess I should just fly my flag upside down.

September 11, 2010 at 2:45 AM  
Blogger Dennis308 said...

C.A., I was working in the Northeast on 9-11-01. I am a Merchant Marine and the Company I was working for is out of Staten Island.

I happened to be home on my days off, I was sleeping in that day and my Wife came and woke me up to see the News. I chewed her out for waking me up because of some ¨MOVIE¨. I did´t believe what I was seeing on the Tube. She told me that it was NO Fu##ing Movie, Just watch and see for myself. Well it finally dawned on my Dumb Ass that it was true and I apologized to my Beloved.

Well when it came time for me to return to my Boat in N.Y. my Wife did not want me to fly or return to N.Y. I told her,
1. I had to go to work that we needed the $$$$$
2. That I would not Live in Fear of these Ass Holes.

When I got to New York and saw what had happened with My Own Eyes it was Much Worse than it had all Appeared on TV. And almost everyday the Men and Women working the site of The Towers were finding more bodies and pieces of bodies. The Ruins continued to smolder for almost 2 Months. It was Heartbreaking.I am not ashamed to confess that I did shed Tears more that a couple of times passing the site of what once had been the WTC. Not because of the buildings but because of the lives that were lost. You see there were a lot of people that worked at the Towers that lived in Staten Is. and almost everyone knew someone that worked there Office Personnel and First Responders alike.

So today as far as I´m concerned if someone wants to burn Korans or Muslims either I say more power to ém I´ll not do any thing to stop them. A Jihad is coming if we like it or not and the sooner we confront it the better chance we have of not being conquered. We were talking about the burning Koran DoDo yesterday at one of the local gun shops. The owner was upset about it and I said if we start fighting now the battle will only be that much harder in the future and it is better to lose a few hundred or thousand lives that a couple million later. To many Americans are blind to the real danger that Islam Presents to the rest of the world in General and the United States in Particular. Just ask Buba he knows.


September 11, 2010 at 2:59 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I for one intend to purchase a copy of the Koran at my neighborhood bookstore and BURN THAT PIECE OF SHIT. If the Woos Preacher in Florida wants to back down, skrew him but his point has been noticed. I also intend to use the KORAN as TOILET PAPER to wipe my ass with. I have No Respect for a "Religion of Peace" that will execute by stoning Widows, Rape Victims etc. I proudly declare myself an INFIDEL to the ragheads.

September 11, 2010 at 4:44 AM  
Anonymous Defender said...

Human remains have been identified within one block -- 360 feet -- of the proposed mosque.

"Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf, who describes himself as the "visionary" behind the mosque, told CNN this week, "This is not Ground Zero proper. No one's body is in that location." "

The dust and ash spread for miles on the wind.

I'd say Rauf is a sociopath.

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/grim_map_that_widens_zero_oO8KsXYbwMogueIyoPfxCP#ixzz0zBk7GPsl

September 11, 2010 at 4:47 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Islam delenda est."

War is the Health of the State. Here are the Cliff's notes for the several meanings of that:


Can anyone do the War College analysis of world Muslimity as a fighting force? How many divisions, how many battleships, how many nukes, air superiority, communications satellites; logistics system; track record of Christian nations conquered in the last hundred years; able to reliably supply water, sewer, and electricity to their cities?

September 11, 2010 at 5:24 AM  
Anonymous Witchwood said...

Islam delenda est.

This should be shouted to the rafters.

Make no mistake, the attacks on 11 September, 2001 were a direct result of the merchantilism of the US government, 80 years worth of that activity.

Whatever your philosophy and position of authority, you clearly do not understand Islam. The primary motivation behind the 9/11 attacks was the many commandments to jihad laid out in the koran. The koran has provided the motivation for virtually every Islamic conquest or "act of terror" conceived since the 7th century.

It's a common libertarian failing to think that the state is the source of all evil in the world. It isn't.

September 11, 2010 at 10:54 AM  
Anonymous Defender said...

It's almost nine years to the minute, and I still have trouble believing they actually did it, conceiving of how anyone can hate that much. In the end I guess it was a matter of personal glory, and what kind of culture glorifies such acts?
If they hate us for our freedom, well, they have less reason to hate us now, don't they? Our government is doing what they want, building the surveillance/security state. A dishonor to the memory of those we lost that day.

September 11, 2010 at 1:46 PM  
Blogger Dedicated_Dad said...

Boy CA - that comment (#2 above) is perhaps *THE* best synopsis of "The Religion of Pieces" and our burgeoning conflict that I've ever seen.

I'll be sharing that - with proper attribution of course...

I wasn't in NYFC that horrible day, nor did I have any loved-ones there, but I had my own "Crisis" to handle as a result, and my life was irrevocably chamged by the day's events.

I wrote about it on my blog - a post much too long for comments - if anyone is interested...


September 11, 2010 at 5:00 PM  
Blogger Dancing Mossad said...

Are there any critical thinking Americans left?

Take two hours and watch Richard Gage in "Blueprint for Truth".

If you still believe fire made all three trade center buildings fall into thier own footprints then keep blaming the muslims.

Incidentally no steel frame building had ever fully collapsed due to fire before 9/11, now we are supposed to believe that three on the same day did, at nearly free fall speed no less, riiight.

September 11, 2010 at 5:05 PM  
Blogger Sean said...

All politics aside, I will not rest until my tomohawk runs red with the blood of the last of these enemies. ISLAM DELENDA EST.III.

September 11, 2010 at 6:10 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Islam delenda est."

Extremely strong words! Make no mistake that's what the Romans also said to Carthage: "Carthago delenda est!" Are we to go by way of the Romans? Struggle for our survival, then empire, then fall from that?

I fear these words! I really do feel for the victims and you could imagine my shock to see the towers fell. But the words carry much more than just "destroy"... to me it means to wipe out Islam; that it is our mortal enemy much like what the Romans meant when went to war with Carthage.

Are we to carry on these wars on terrorism? However long it takes to see it through to destroy Islam? Now what if (a big "what if") Islam has nothing to do with it and there are other forces behind this? What then? Are we to let both the Left and Right keep on using this excuse to expand their empire/agenda so that our society would go beyond broke and in ruin just as did the Romans?

I have been a quiet, loyal follower of this site but I am shocked to see these words and your frequent quotes from Gates of Vienna! Not because I agree with the attacks of 911 but because both seem to believe America is now a mortal enemy of islam. Yes, the struggle has been going on for eons but are we to carry the banners of the Crusaders? To do this you may be straying off the points that you've led so well all this time: the struggle of individualism vs. collectivism, freedom vs. fascism, etc.

(To paraphrase) George Washington told the country not to get involved with Europe (and for that matter with anyone else and to worry about ourselves and our own defense). We are currently an empire. Are we to set up our own fall when we lock ourselves in this struggle with Islam?

I beg you sir, to reconsider your choice of words.


September 11, 2010 at 8:07 PM  
Anonymous Defender said...

Watching the documentary on the History Channel. After the first plane hit, a Morgan Stanley security man named Rick Rescorla urged everyone to leave the building. That was about 2700 employees of just that company alone. When they reached the ground-floor lobby, security officers and police told them everything was under control and to return to their work stations. Those who did ... died. Those who followed their instincts survived to tell about it.
Question Authority.

September 11, 2010 at 9:45 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anon at 5:24:

Here's the awful truth -- the sons of Mohammed have, thus far, soft-conquered the UK, the Nordic countries, much of France, and much of the rest of Europe, along with Canada, without as much conventional .mil force as Burkina Faso.

Any foe that can whack a big chunk of NATO by burning some cars, beheading a few contractors and journalists on videotape, and marching towards conquest of the ballot box via the Islamic womb is a formidable 4GW opponent.

Note the POTUS statement today:

"As Americans, we will not or ever be at war with Islam." (update at 9:43 am edt)

That's freaking formidable, as in "the greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist".

September 12, 2010 at 12:04 AM  
Blogger Concerned American said...


I appreciate your concern. Truly.

Here's the oversimplification: Collectivism murders en masse -- be it red (Communist), brown (fascist), or green (Islamic) collectivism. Hence, fully stated, the grand strategic objective is "Coercive collectivism of any flavor must be eradicated so as to preserve individual freedom".

Read all of these pieces for many of the nuances:

From Meccania to Atlantis

September 12, 2010 at 12:19 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anon 12:04 9/12

So you already think that Europe is Eurabia?

You apparently have forgotten that Muslims are still only around 10 percent at most of Western Europe, and all that is needed to restart Europe's bloodlust would be a couple more terrorist attacks, and the extremists know it, that is why they plan in Europe (9/11 was planned in Hamburg, Germany), but attack the U.S. They understand that Europe would go full retard with the far right neo National Socialists, and kill them all quickly, if anger was ever raised enough. (Same reason why no attacks happen in China, a nation that is actually Godless and a better Jihad target according to the Koran).

The truly bizzare thing is that the USA is actually more tolerant of Muslims than one would think, when we have attacks, we get pissed off, but deporting all Muslims or putting them in internment camps (still legal BTW, see Korematsu v. United States), has never been suggested by any real candidate here.

I know that Islam is an enemy to the West, but it is important that we do not go down the full retard path, that some of you favor, at least implicitly, as BS as Islam is, it is protected by the Constitution just like the idiots at the Westboro church and Scientology.

And if you think we are at war with Islam, are we also at war with the PRC and our own government, taking all three on at once is receipe for extinction.
(Concerned American, this applies to you as well).

If we expect any chance of sucess, then we need to play these enemies off against each other. Thus far, the PRC seems to be doing exactly that...

September 12, 2010 at 3:49 AM  
Blogger Concerned American said...


I think Europe's bloodlust is a thing of the past. I hope I am wrong.

As for the three-front war -- right now, are we fighting any of those fronts skillfully?

Or do you really think there's a way to claim a "do over" versus either the ChiComs, Team Mo, or the .gov so as to permit the realpolitik you advise?

September 12, 2010 at 7:13 AM  
Anonymous Abstemio said...

I too have some grave reservations about the likelihood that the planes alone took those buildings down. Especially WTC 7. Too perfect. It would take weeks of deliberate preparation to achieve such a feat with standard demolition explosives, yet we're to believe that two planes did it not only once, not twice, but three times? And the plane didn't even hit the third building?

Do any of you want to call me a nutty conspiracy theorist for that? That's fine. I assure you, I'm a very sane and sober individual. But there have been many architects, as pointed out by a previous poster, who also believe that there is more than a few planes behind the collapse of the World Trade Center buildings.

"Cui bono?" And "follow the money" come to mind.

The gunvermin have done some truly foul and treasonous things in the past. From the Whiskey Rebellion, to the Mexican-American war, to the fact that the Lusitania was, in fact, carrying munitions, to the "bloody-handed hun" in Belgium, the internment of the Japanese, the Tonkin Gulf Incident lie, to the U.S.S. Liberty, "Nurse Nayirah," they are like Satan: liars and murderers from the beginning.

Watch a calm, bald, middle-aged scientist go step-by-step through what we're expected to believe about the fall of the buildings on 9/11. It does not add up.


Hermann Goering spoke these words at Nuremberg:

"Why of course the people don't want war. Why would some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best he can get out of it is to come back in one piece to his farm? Naturally the common people don’t want war. But after all, it is the
leaders of a country who determine the policy, and it’s always a
simple matter to drag people along, whether it is a democracy or a
fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship.
Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of
the leaders. This is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are
being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and
for exposing the country to danger. It works the same in every

Again, I ask, cui bono? Politicians are conniving thugs, and money obviously means more to them than basic human decency.

To paraphrase Mark Twain: when you find yourself thinking the same way as the majority, it's time to re-evaluate your ideas.

September 12, 2010 at 3:11 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Concerned American, you know of Geert Wilders in the Netherlands correct?
You know that Sarkozy is actually deporting Gypsies en masse (imagine our .gov doing that to illegal immigrants).
You know that all it takes for our retarded cousins across the ponds to go apeshit is to expose the governments lies in a bold fashion?
No matter how dulled by socialism they become, all it takes to go back to facism is a major terroirist attack the size of 10,000 deaths a la Mumbai in several cities at the same time. Europeans are notorious collectivists, unlike Americans who are individualists, and a single charasmatic leader could easily emerge and be the new Napoleon, Mussolini, or Hitler.

We, the "Anti-collectivist defenders of the true Republic and Freedom" (or 3 percenters) are losing on every front.

What we need is to get the Muslims pissed off in a Jihad aganist the PRC, we can start off by picking up those AL QAEDA Uigurs that are in Gitmo, training them and dropping them off in NW China (not saying the .gov has to do this).

If we cause an internal conflict of Jihad in NW China, we can also restart the Tibet guerilla war, with help from India.

These actions will distract our .gov temporarily, and could be used for political organizing in the USA at the state level, eventually leading to an electoral realignment of the federal government, which will not be bothered by China's saber rattiling when it wants its debt paid back (due to the PRC being distracted by guerilla war).

20 years from now, if started today, would be enough to clean the USA and prepare it for conflict between the winner of PRC vs. Islam (or hopefully the PRC wins and succumbs to internal revolution, leading to the ROC regaining control and allying with the USA). With Europe going down the road to Neo-Fascism or Communism regardless of what happens elsewhere, they will be fighting against us or the Muslims depending on who wins the earlier war. Being as how they will be fighting Islam with the PRC, we will need to make sure that they and the PRC remain as the US and Soviets did in WWII.

By playing off all our enemies against each other, in 30 years, we should be left at the top of the heap...

"No plan survives first contact with the enemy"..

How to start, get off Muslim oil and PRC made junk as fast as possible.

(If you wonder where Russia is in this scenario I will give you the explanation: High Muslim rate and the russian government is allied with China, making it into a proxy war, perhaps we get Putin overthrown in a military coup and he moves here, as I trust him running us over our current 545 stooges.)

It all starts with lighting a fire here (protests against Mosque building) and throwing the fire somewhere in NW China or Russia. Some adaptations of our media "propoganda" against Muslims and their .gov could be translated and given to Chinese "3%ers" to cause internal conflict there. We could also send disinformation about the PRC to Islamic "Internet Jihadists" to make them turn against the PRC, as soon as they find out that the PRC is not as Muslim-friendly as they thought.

Know any Mandarin? Know someone who does? Know Arabic? Know someone who does?

((Once again, I should have a blog, but my "employer" would look negatively on it, and I need to eat))

September 12, 2010 at 9:07 PM  
Blogger Concerned American said...


Good post.

Can/will you write up what steps would be needed to be done to effect same, and why you think they are not being taken?

Add, if you would, what a rabble (said with affection) of < 10,000 action-oriented Americans citizens are supposed to do on your set of facts?

Do it and I'll post as a standalone essay.

September 13, 2010 at 1:36 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Concerned American, first I would recommend sharing this with other bloggers for editing/revision and the occasional ignorance I may miss, after all I am no where near an active duty US Army major at Leavenworth Staff, just an amateur doing work while my laptop is not under my employer's monitoring software (detects passwords and other information, which is the reason, aside from wasted time that I cannot maintain a blog). Anyways, onto the plan to divide and conquer.

1. Operation Turban Dragon, as I will call it, if I was an intelligence agency, would be an intentional plan of disinformation and aid to dissident groups in the People's Republic of China in the form of details on sabatoge akin to the "window war" on local Communist Party headquarters, some old CIA manuals directed for Nicauragura Contras translated into Mandarin would help as well. Given that few of us Americans know Mandarin, finding people who do in your network would be essential, as I would not rely soley on what you would learn from Rosetta Stone. It may be possible to find groups in China that speak English and though finding these groups in the maze of Chinese internet organization, multiple proxies and lack of interest in governmental change, as well as lack of knowledge of internal events. (An example, remember the 2008 Tibet riots, no news leaked out, same as protests in Xinjiang or NW China, where the Uighur Muslims are from). Spreading this news to them would be critical, as the few who do this now are Wikileaks cosmopolitanist types rather than anti-collectivist freedom lovers like us.
2. The same would work for operations to Middle East/other Muslim groups even in the USA, where they would be shown the PRC's "exploitation" of Muslim nations for its own goals, and the rioting Tibetan/Counter-rioting Han mobs in the Lhasa 2008 riots, and the occassional flareups in NW china. Both areas are complicated by governments that actively screw the people, then blame problems on outsiders or "others".

Third, why these actions are not done already to my knowledge by the intelligence community.
-China owns the US government's debt, finances our wars, props up are social programs. We are dependent on them as well, for the heavy industrial parts that are no longer made here due to labor/environmental costs. Because of the criminal disreagard of the 1989 uprising by HW Bush, we now find ourselves over a barrel with the PRC.
-The Middle East owns most of the world's oil. Period. We piss of the rulers by treating Muslims bad here, we freeze in the winter. The cultural elites may say PC, but it is all about oil, like EVERY SINGLE WAR THE PAST 100 YEARS.

There are other factors at play as well, but they need to be covered by other writings.

September 13, 2010 at 4:53 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The rest of the post, never knew about posting limitations...

About the feasibility: Very hard. Mandarin and Arabic linguists are damn near hard to find, so much that the DoD gives out bonuses to every one recruited (one of the reasons why DADT will be gone was because a couple homosexual linguists in these languages were discharged). At least with the Chinese, there are those who speak English and might listen about our methods to use against corrupt government. But among Muslims, we will have to find disgruntled linguists from the war who see the merits of our cause.

What the average guy can do: Ever hear of alternative fuels for cars, research them and either learn how to perform modifications yourself (internet and local vocational schools can help). Any alt power for your house is a step in the right direction.

For other things, pick ONE item per month that is MIPRC, and replace it with something preferably MIUSA or at least somewhere that is in the Western Hemispehre. For big ticket items, this is an absolute must. (A stand-alone article about this could be written for both topics, but I have no experience on the first, and some on the second, where obvious problems result with avoiding the Unions, who drive most of this, but sometimes you must ask who you fear more.)
(This could be called "One Star for Freedom one less for Slavery", anyone familiar with USA and PRC flags will get it, it also works with your Restore the Constitution flag with one star in the stripes.)

Off the top of my head: If anyone here uses sneakers/atheltic shoes during your PT, there is only one brand MIUSA, New Balence and not all are, check label first. Right there is dollars going to either the PRC and the distributors (Nike, Adidas) who then give it to pro atheletes, though still making impressive profits.

Given all things we use daily, (power tools, electronics, appliances, PostIt notes, kitchen utensils, paper...) finding one item of PRC to eliminate per month, if not week is feasible, spreading "Don't Buy PRC they support XXX that we hate" and "Buy USA" through ideas that have already been promoted by this site, can get the idea, similar to III percent images, jammed into the heads of Americans. Protesting government purchasing decisions and hammering the questions down hard of where the money is going is crucial, gathering 10-20 people for local meetings is a great way to start.

This post is easily divided into two divergent articles, both needing further refinement, but it is my attempt to explain and adapt tactics for use against our biggest foreign enemies that can be spread from the bottom up.

Thank you for your support, and please share these ideas with the other bloggers, and I anticipate all the thrashing that will result. It is through this, I hope that a clear message can be send about the need to split our enemies while remaining united ourselves (which is another can of worms).

September 13, 2010 at 4:54 AM  
Anonymous Abstemio said...

Anonymous espousing "Turban Dragon,"

You, sir, are an interventionist. Someone who thinks he is able to prognosticate the effects of a top-down plan to alter society. Interventionists always fail. Economic interventionists fail (Socialists, Communists, Keynesians,) and so do political interventionists (Operation Ajax, Viet Nam.) You cannot alter a society from the top down. It is contrary to human nature to make such an attempt. Either a change is organic, or it is artificial and imposed.

The Communists failed because their ideas about human nature were inherently flawed. They thought they could direct an economy. It's impossible! The economy is made up of the interactions of billions of people billions of times a second. It is sheer arrogance to assume that one can impose one's own pathetic idea of how an economy should function onto free-will interactions among billions of individuals. It is likewise arrogant to try "social engineering," whether it is "Great Society," or "urban renewal," or something far more lethal in intent.

September 14, 2010 at 1:32 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well, I guess that is my new name, Turban Dragon...

How is my "plans", an "intervention" from the top down, i seriously doubt any government agency will direct such plans, rather they are designed as idea points for internet activism with groups overseas, and economic ways to "intervene" against government policy in the form of bottom-up economic protest and internet guerilla marketing/protesting/hacking? to convince others to join. You can only "non-intervene" so far before you have the enemy at the gates.

Besides, you know that we number only around 10,000, or what Lenin called a "cadre" but yet we are using the tactics of bottom up organizing from Saul Alinsky, this whole movement is founded on the idea of guerilla resistance to massive government overstepping in the ways of Che Guevara, like it or not, while we may like Communism, much of our strategy is based on the ideas of Communists.

You do know that in VN, the reason the NVA won was because of Soviet and PRC support, not because of VC who were destroyed after Tet.

Yet another intervention that worked was known as Gladio in Italy during a "strategy of tension", it was these "interventions" that stopped W Europe from going Red in the 1950-1970s era. Not that it will matter later...

Where in my postings do I describe desire for more foreign invasions in the style of Clinton and Bush?

If you do not support "intervention" then how are we going to stop the PRC from owning this country like it does Madagascar and Australia, and I mean LAND not just .gov debt?

If we do not "intervene" and impose our will on a government and population desiring "more,more,more", then how will we be stopped? Hiding out even in group retreats of 50-100 won't work, some fools in Montana tried that in the 90s.

If we do not "intervene" then how will we stop the oncoming Muslim takeover of Europe and the eventual pushback by the dulled but not dead Europeans, which will mean tens if not hundreds of millions of deaths in the ultimate race war?

The actions needed to be started in 1913, and we failed.

As Elvis said "less conversation, more action".

Yes, we are intervening, but we are no government, we are doing it from the bottom up, what you call organic Abstemio.

BTW: How did this country become free...we had an "intervention" by the french and played all of Europe against each other afterwards, with only one restart of war in 1812-1815, when if they had wanted to, Europe could have smoked us then and there as soon as the Brits were out.

I am simply trying to modernize that strategy, and I appreciate your feedback.

September 14, 2010 at 5:19 AM  
Anonymous Abstemio said...

Turban Dragon,

If you were espousing something like the Polish Solidarity movement, I would definitely approve. It was organic, because while the ideas often came from a central command (the Vatican,) it was not based on "disinformation," but truth. It was an attempt to give an empowering outlet to people who were already yearning to be free. It worked because it was what the people needed, and what they wanted. It made them feel better about themselves, and united them against the outside aggressors.

The things you propose seem to me to be a bit more on the underhanded side, ala Mossadegh (and all the savageries that animal inflicted, coupled with the resultant blowback) and Operation Gladio. Did Operation Ajax and Operation Gladio work? Well, perhaps Gladio did, if you consider slaughtering innocents to be a viable option. I don't. Does anyone here think that blowing up buses full of innocent people is a viable option? I didn't think so.

We are here to uphold the truth. The truth about human nature, the truth about dignity, and honor. One can only uphold those ideals by acting in a human way. In a dignified way. In an honorable way. Otherwise, one is merely a different mutation of the same thugs whose reign one is trying to undermine and eliminate, preferably through non-violent means, in the way the East German government crumbled, or in the way that the Velvet Revolution happened.

Lies must be fought by telling the truth. Let them show what monsters they are, and in the meantime, convince others to refrain from giving their moral support to the government. The easiest way to destroy a fortress is not a frontal attack, but by undermining it. And you do that by convincing people to establish alternatives for government services. By convincing them that robbing people to provide for the common good is a morally reprehensible and counterproductive act. (If you want an example, look at the "Great Society" welfare program. See the destruction of the family it wrought. See the massive increase in poverty. The increased dependence on the government.)

September 14, 2010 at 9:15 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Absentimo, if you confront Muslims about the facts in the Koran that the prophet was a pedophile warmonger, then they get violent. If you tell the citizens of the PRC that there government hates them and wants them as slaves, they will laugh at you because their lives have improved by leaps and bounds in a single generation. Liberty is worth a lot less to the world's sheep than security, the only way they will want liberty is to threaten their security, because in the PRC there are no liberties to be sacrificed for security.

To get this revolution, we had to tar and feather the Brits, commit acts of terror (the B-town Tea Party), and fight a dirty war in the Carolinas.

I have no interest in killing innocents, I would prefer that military targets be attacked, and that is why I think we need the Muslims and PRC against each other, so we can concentrate on domestic activities instead of dying on foreign battlefields.

The way we beat the USSR was by overspending on B-1s, submarines fighter planes, and backing the mujahideen in the Stan, who along with the others we backed were less than reputable.

The reasons nonviolent revolutions happened in Europe was because the USSR backed governments, were no longer USSR backed, and the rulers feared being killed like the Romanian dictator.

Woodrow Wilson was also an idealist like you, thanks to him we got the federal reserve, KKK, income tax, WWI, and a weak Versailles treaty that did not undo Bismarck and spilt up Germany, which caused WWII.

Thank you for your feedback, as always.

September 15, 2010 at 3:08 AM  

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