An Open Letter To General Petraeus
General, I ask you this: what in hell is your “mission” if We The People jeopardize it by exercising our First Amendment rights in our own homeland? Is your “mission” to defend our rights against foreign enemies, or to defend foreign enemies against our rights? You made your choice, and you justified by claiming that you and those under your command have been taken hostage by our 7th Century terrorist enemy, and that the ransom demand you deliver to us is that we submit to your captor’s restrictions on our natural and constitutional rights – or they’ll kill you. I remind you and your captors that we do not negotiate with terrorists. And I remind you that you are the most revered general in the present day, commanding in the most powerful military in all of history, during the most justifiable war in the last seventy years. So please either remember your priorities and slaughter your captors, or resign in disgrace so that we may replace you with a warrior. And if you resign, you should do so right along with President Obama, Gen. Caldwell, Pentagon Spokesman Lapan, Sec. of State Clinton, Atty. Gen. Holder, NATO Sec. Rasmussen and all others in all branches of government and in all alliances who echoed your request, whether they did so mindlessly or with surrender aforethought. To have our own military leaders beg us to refrain from exercising our Constitutional rights on our own soil is completely un-American. And to have you make that request of us in the name of cowardice is a shocking and unthinkable perversion I still don’t have the words for... ***
From the new Burn the Koran for Freedom blog:OPEN LETTER TO GEN. PETRAEUS (Please re-post to anti-jihad sites)
“Were the actual burning to take place, the safety of our soldiers and civilians would be put in jeopardy and accomplishment of the mission would be made more difficult.”– Gen. David Petraeus
Read the rest and pass it on, along with this related piece.
posted by Concerned American | 1:54 PM
37 Comments:
Bravo. If nothing else, the burnings can be used to flush out the "radical" Muslims, or to find out there are no "radical" Muslims and "moderate" Muslims, just people who hate freedom....
Ya, it's a hard thing to find out that you have amassed the greatest military the world has ever know, and it's lead by a bunch of pussies.
I watched the History Channel specials about 9/11 last night. Close up and personal video from witnesses and victims who survived. People hanging out of 100-story windows with flames washing over them until they couldn't stand it any more and jumped. Eight long seconds to contemplate impact.
Damn the Wahabis. Damn them to hell.
Rauf, imam of the proposed ground zero mosque, is a slumlord. Tell me again about Islamic charity and concern for fellow man. I guess it's better than being totally homeless, but the hypocrisy of building a multimillion dollar "cultural center" while...
Someone made the excellent observation that the Muslims destroyed two thousand-year-old Buddhas carved into a mountain when they took over an area. And they object to some burned paper, enough to kill... enough to kill our children?
I'm sure there are tall buildings in Riyadh.
But instead, we're selling them... planes.
In this manifesto, the American spirit is set forth with clarity and purpose. It forms a stark contrast to the weasel-worded proclamations of President Obama and General Petreus.
I nominate Chuck Prime for Secretary of Defense.
MALTHUS
I can NOT bring myself to past this on.
The author may have some good points but……………….
It’s difficult even to bring myself to read anymore of what this individual has to say after this line.
“during the most justifiable war in the last seventy years.”
I can only imagine how this uninformed, war worshipping, cheerleader for this undeclared, unconstitutional, illegal war / occupation, justifies it in his government educated statist mind.
WWalker
Islam delenda est. III.
Further,
These folks who continue to by into this government manufactured terrorism bull shit, and are so giddy and gleeful about occupying foreign countries and killing in mass…………they all need to pack their bags and guns and get over there. If they believe that the real threat to their freedom and life is wearing a dirty night shirt and living in a cave in some far off land………..then what the hell are they doing sitting around blogging. If this idiot loves war so much and truly believes that there is justifiable killing to be done, he needs to get up off his ass and get to it.
I loose a little more hope every day.
WWalker
WWalker:
I submit we face a polygonal threat environment, and those who see only the Islamic face of that polygon are as blind as those who see only the domestic statist face.
Add ambitious foreign strategic competitors, a corrupt contiguous failed state, an ideological fifth column, and a sizable (>50%?) component of our own fellow citizens who are beyond hope.
The result?
One hell of a mess.
I'd be happy to have you or anyone else who sees the full picture lay it out clearly in an essay. We'd publish it in a heartbeat.
We need to get it through our heads that Islam/Mohammedianism is not "a religion" in the sense that Baptists/Mormons/Unitarians/Methodism/Catholicism in the West are. Islam is an All-Encompassing Way that tells followers how to do each moment of the day and how to punish/vanquish those who don't/won't/can't follow the commands of The Prophet Who is the Last And Most Important Representative of a cruel and vengeful god (Allah). This is a brainwashing cult-of-personality become national/global governance that is very successful/contagious and must be taken seriously as a cultural and military enemy (not a competitor that can be negotiated with. Principal of Deception (takia?) makes negotiation a tactic, at best).
The only form of Government capable of controlling Islam is one based on secret police, command economy, and a web of fear. Saddam Hussein's update of 1930's Stalinism seemed effective against internal enemies, while hollowing out the country against external threats.
Western media/opinion-makers have attempted to allow for "moderate Islam" (ironic quotes), especially in US citizens and residents. This is a mistake on our part, since there is no division of Islam or Islamists in the world.
If there are in-fact "moderate" Islamists anywhere, they are considered by the mainstream of Islam to be practicing deception against infidels, until they are denounced as "bad Muslims" (because they are not actively following the dictates of the Prophet and the current earthly leadership). Good or Real Muslims are what Americans would call "radical" Islamists, who read the Koran in the way that the Koran instructs and follows those instructions as advised by the most respected Imams and religious scholars of the Islamic world.
Western media are suffering from a translation problem in the word "Islam". It does mean "peace", but that is the tranquility of knowing that your enemies are enslaved/powerless or in their graves. Peace=submission=surrender of all who are not us.
It is not insignificant that in the global mind of Islam, regions are divided into those dominated/controlled by Islam (land of peace) and other places (land of war). Nations and peoples are subsumed by this division.
What we have is a new Cold War, easily as dangerous to the West as the one between ComIntern and WesternCiv. It will take much determination to push back or destroy Global Islam sufficiently to make WesternCiv once again dominant. Our survival as a nation and a culture is in question.
Cheers.
Concerned American - would like a private chat if possible.
Sorry to put this on the board...
Thanks,
We have what we have, because this is what the majority wants.
For example people say they want to restore the constitution, but whole heartedly support unconstitutional wars and scores of unconstitutional laws. All because they have be taught to hate someone or are offended by someone or something, and want to use the force of government to kill those they have learned to hate, and to control and / or punish those who have offended them.
So we have a messy compromise.
There is no real fix but...........
The answer is simple……………too simple.
It is and will continue to be rejected by the majority, because the majority desires to control others in some way, and has no desire to be personally responsible.
We can't fix others..............only ourselves, then wait.
Contract law: Do what you say you will do.
Criminal law: Don’t harm anyone else.
The only morally justifiable use of force is in self defense, and defense of ones own family and property. In the case of protecting self, family, and property, there is a point at which it is ones moral responsibility to use force.
For example…………….
I, my family, and property have not been attacked buy “terrorist” in dirty night shirts, so I do not have a moral justification or responsibility to kill “terrorist”, so can not delegate the killing of persons labeled as “terrorist”, to anyone else, or support it.
Now the government stealing my money in order to carry out this killing……………there is moral justification for the us of force against someone stealing my property.
Problem is the thief has the backing of the majority, which wants to use the money stolen from me to kill people they hate, and are more than willing to allow the government to kill me if I do not allow the theft to continue without resistance. Therefore prudence dictates that I have no moral responsibility to use force against this thief, it would be suicide.
The simple but it is so hard.
WWalker
Thomas:
Contact info?
IRA targeting bankers:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/sep/14/real-ira-targets-banks-bankers
"Ya, it's a hard thing to find out that you have amassed the greatest military the world has ever know, and it's"
crossed the Rubicon and is POINTED AT YOU.
"I submit we face a polygonal threat environment, and those who see only the Islamic face of that polygon are as blind as those who see only the domestic statist face."
There is no Islamic face, there is only the domestic statist face, which plays the Islamic race card from time to time. Look back through the legislative alerts from the past year. None of it was being pushed by Muslims in congress.
"[religion] is an All-Encompassing Way that tells followers how to do each moment of the day and how to punish/vanquish those who don't/won't/can't follow the commands of"
Sounds like you are describing the Catholic Spanish Inquisition. Same stuff, different day. Religions and governments have the same organization and power structure, nearly the same cosmetic details, and intertwine with the same human instincts in the same way.
I concur with WWalker.
I weary of the glorification of our so called military prowess.
Most just war in 70 years? wow!
I love America; the ideal, the freedom we once had, the culture, the heartland, what we once stood for.
I have come to loathe the government of America; the lies, the manipulation, the distortion, the ever growing self aggrandizing beast that is eating out our substance, enslaving our children and exercising brute force to accomplish all.
We have become a fractured and disillusioned lot. Ignorant of truth and willing to sacrifice anything nay everything in the pursuit of global hegemonic empire because we do not understand what the elites are doing to us and our once cherished culture.
KPN3%
If he's anything like his family, who I had the displeasure of meeting in a business context, he's a glad-handing back-stabbing socialite. There are good officers, but if I were to judge a man by his words spoken in public and by his kinfolk, I don't reckon I'd much care to drink a beer with him. He probably feels the same about us.
American-born transnationalists who have aligned themselves with the Chinese axis continue to appreciate that the divide and conquer agenda within America is going along right on schedule...
Sorry - that would help, huh?
editor@kerodinapress.com
Thanks,
http://freedominourtime.blogspot.com/
“The people running the Regime's security organs agree with Shahzad's analysis completely. They know that it is Washington's foreign policy, not the Koran, that inspires contemporary Muslim terrorism. Those people understand how to create and exploit enemies.” –Will Grigg.
A little different, intelligently written perspective on the Koran, terrorism, and the governments’ war machine.
Defender,
How many of "their" childern need to be killed to even the score in your book?
Be sure to watch the video. You won't be able to catch this one on the History Channel.
http://www.wikileaks.org/wiki/Collateral_Murder,_5_Apr_2010
WWalker
"I submit we face a polygonal threat environment, and those who see only the Islamic face of that polygon are as blind as those who see only the domestic statist face."
Very brief, very clear, and VERY TRUE.
Bravo
First, the Koran burning was idiotic and should have been blacklisted by the MSM, if you ask me it was blown out of proportion intentionally.
Second, the polygonal threat is real, the it has five points.
Islamic Neo-Caliphatists (stop using Islamofascists, that is what Saddam was, and he is long dead).
PRC-People's Republic of China
US-PTB (The powers that be in the USA)
Mexican Revanchists (a decoy for NAFTA II plans, also known as the North American Union, but that term was originated by an igornant FBI racist punk whose name is not worthy of mention, like all racists)
The Entitlement Class
These five points are all but facets of the true helmet behing the polygon is the blue helmet of the UN representing the march of global supergovernment in the form of the IMF, WTO, World Court and the annual meetings of the rich and powerful (Davos, Bilderberg, whatever they call themselves now).
They are the force behind the polygonal threats and will betray them at the opportune time, and before you flip, I do not believe that this is the Jooz, the people behind this are soley motivated by a desire for unlimited power and wealth, which is based nowhere in the Torah, not to mention that most of these people are atheists who worship themselves.
"Just" war or "unjust war." They're both war and try as we might, we will never rid ourselves of either.
We modern humans have bought into a lot of stupid ideas and paramount among them is the belief that we are somehow better or superior to our distant ancestors. Nothing could be further from the truth: We are EXACTLY the same as they were. We're just as noble, greedy, brave, cowardly,... whatever, as they were. We just have newer and shinier toys to play with than did Alexander the Great or Xerxes or Moses or even Caesar. So long as humans remain human, they'll go to war.
Is this one justifiable? We all have our opinions but it will fall to historians to make the ultimate decision. Just as there are historians who claim our own war between the ststes was for a good cause there are others who point out facts that tend to "prove" the opposite.
In fact, few wars are fought for the reasons claimed. More often they're fought to increase the treasure of one party or the other and there have been cases where arms dealers have made fortunes by selling to both sides.
I believe it was Stalin who said something like "a single death is a tragedy. A million deaths is a statistic." Still, it is a proven fact that no war has ever been decided totally on the battlefield. For a country to elect to sue for peace it has to suffer casualties on the homefront.
Japan's generals were willing to fight to the last man on the home islands until we killed several thousand civilians with one bomb. At that point the Emperor decided he'd had enough.
So long as we worry more about what the Muslim people think about us and less about winning the war, we can expect to be filed in the space behind the Russian and British armies-- in the 'loser' file. War is not a pleasant thing and it isn't meant to be but if we're going to do it we need to do it right.
Seen it, Wwalker, and I was outraged. Our military arrived determined, eager, itching to kill, and they did: people not engaged in any hostilities, and a news crew standing with them. Then they shot the dying cameraman again, and then they shot people -- including a young girl apparently asleep in the van -- who came to pick up the wounded and dying. Every American should be outraged.
You think I condone that, even support it? I don't think you've been reading my comments here and elsewhere. I would gladly give my life to save a child's.
18 of the "Magnificent 19" September 11 hijackers were Wahabi Muslims from Saudi Arabia. Not Iraq, not Afghanistan. The Saudi government isn't doing anything about their hatemongers. That says something.
I agree with those who say totalitarianism is the enemy, in any guise.
My "tall buildings in Riyadh" (the Saudi capital) was meant as an "If we were like them" analogy. Of course I don't really suggest payment-in-kind. I hate to be misunderstood. I take responsibility for being overwrought and indulging in hyperbole.
As I understand it, Interpol and the FBI had leads on the Sept. 11 hijackers well beforehand but didn't follow up. They just wanted to learn to fly a 747 straight and level but not how to take off and land?
The system failed us.
If WE native-born American citizens are going to be subjected to a surveillance state to "prevent Islamic terrorism," then I think it's right to insist that foreign nationals calling the shots be investigated with equal enthusiasm. They know who they are. The CIA and NSA have vast resources. IF perpetual fear and war isn't the government's objective.
As for burning the Koran as an issue, I give you the Buddhas of Bamyan, Afghanistan.
Or, I give you the niches where they used to be.
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines01/0301-04.htm
Reading carefully, you'll find that the Taliban is considered a legitimate government by Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates. They're referred to as an emirate themselves. That's like a prince's realm.
Damn, that was spot on! I couldn't have said it any better.
It pissed me off beyond belief when I heard this politician posing as a General tell us not to burn a book because they will try to attack us and kill soldiers in the field.
Hey genius! They are already killing you, you are already under attack. We in America are already under attack. They hated us and attacked us the most ever in 2009 and 2010, way before we had any book burning over a mosque.
They hated and killed us before and they will continue to do so until America is no longer and we are all dead.
You are an idiot and a coward!
The people running the Regime's security organs agree with Shahzad's analysis completely. They know that it is Washington's foreign policy, not the Koran, that inspires contemporary Muslim terrorism. Those people understand how to create and exploit enemies. –Will Grigg
William Norman Grigg is an anarchist and a fool (ah, but I repeat myself). He views all things through the narrow prism of his hatred for the State, so it's not surprising that he would dismiss 14 centuries of violent conquest and ignore the commandments of the koran (which he obviously has not read) in order to once again, and in increasingly tiresome fashion, lay blame for all the evils of the world at the feet of government. Without government conflict would not exist and all would be goodness and light. Such fools are no doubt dumbfounded when they are struck down from a blind flank.
While I do not think our current adventures in Araby have any justification, I'll remind you that Moslems are killing Americans right here in our own lands and are commanded by their holy book to institute sharia by whatever means available, be it peaceful deception or violence. Terry Jones has already put the lie to Griggs' idiotic statement that Moslem hatred has anything to do with foreign policy. Hatred of the infidel is absolutely central to Islam.
There is no middle ground. To be for freedom is to be against Islam.
Why isn’t Achmed quaking, worried that Gen Petrius will kill his entire village if he gets out of line? Because we have been ‘policing’ for 9 years, rather than fighting to win: Reduce the enemy capitols to rubble, decimate their 7th century culture.
Fight to WIN.
Or ‘bend over for islam’.
This former Marine Corps human intelligence specialist and combat veteran of the Iraq conflict is in total agreement with the open letter. My job included both intel stuff like talking to locals through a translator AND risking my ass out in the streets getting shot at.
I was over there when the Abu Gurayb photos came out, and I was over there when the Danish Muhammad cartoons were a controversy. Sure, those things were sore subjects when talking to locals,..... BUT intel collection and diplomacy are not the primary missions of the military. Intel collection, diplomacy, and making alliances are SUPPORT functions in regard to the primary mission which is to destroy the enemy. Or at least that's how it ought to be.
If someone is so offended by the koran burning that they decide to attack us, then that person is the enemy. If someone reveals their true intent by suggesting that koran burners be killed as punishment, or, in the case of the Indonesian prime minister, they suggest the the US president violate OUR Constitution and prevent koran burnings, then that's good info to know.
Know your enemy AND
KNOW WHO YOUR ENEMY IS.
No sumbission.
-Dan
“I'll remind you that Moslems are killing Americans right here in our own lands and are commanded by their holy book to institute sharia by whatever means available, be it peaceful deception or violence.”
May I remind you, that it is an individuals responsibility to defend themselves, family, and property, with deadly force when necessary.
Only those who accept the rule of sharia law, and their posterity, can be ruled by sharia law.
Not unlike the rule of this damned government we have now. I’d didn’t agree to this, but wasn’t around to fight it in the early stages. Now all I can do is wait for it to run it’s course and destroy it’s self.
In the mean time I prepare to fight the next threat to my life, freedom, and property, hopefully before “it” gets the full support and backing of the punitive population. Don’t mistake my anti-war, anti-occupation sentiments as pacifism.
Is it the Moslems in DC trying to disarm the American people? Is it the Moslems who created the government education system that has destroyed the minds and the will of the American people? Is it the Moslems who implement the tax system and gang of thugs to enforce it, that is sealing the wealth of the American people?
NO! But they sure as hell are going to take advantage of the mess this damn government has made of American.
I, as an individual, am more threaded here at home, in Montana, by the occupying forces of the American federal government and local governments taking federal money (therefore under the control of the FedGov) and the blood thirsty punitive population created by the social engineering and systems created by the people in these governments, than by any other government, religion, red, white, brown, or purple persons.
Take this damned government it’s regulations and restrictions on my God given rights, my freedom, and the fruits of my labor, so I can properly arm myself…………………..and send me some “terrorist”. PLEASE, and Thank You!
Sending our fellow Americans to foreign countries to kill and be kill, to empire build for the people who have be destroying the wealth and freedom of America for years is absolutely idiotic. It is counter productive and does not do one damn thing to protect anyone being “killed right here in our own lands”.
To think that any one of the many factions that is threatening our individual lives and freedoms, can be used to kill another and save lives and freedom is also absolutely idiotic.
Take a look at history. Every damned bit of power given to the government to kill “the enemy”, can and someday will be turned on the posterity if not the persons who allowed / granted that power to the government. It is happening now, every hour of every day in this country.
The damned government is not your savior here people. They can only fulfill your blood lust until they run out of “enemies”
and come for you!
I will say it again. Anyone who feels that the “enemy” is hiding in some cave, in a far off land and needs killing. Pack your bags and guns, and get to it. Stop talking about it. Stop waiting for someone else to take care of your business.
Your government has proven to be a failure. Unable / unwilling to protect you and yours. They don’t work for you, they don’t care about you, they don’t have your best interest in mind. They only want you to work as their slaves and steal the fruits of your labor and leave you with only enough to keep you alive, dumb, and happy.
Quit yelling at your government, its’ creations and employees about being pussies………….and man up!
Rant off/ Deep breaths………………………………….
WWalker
Take this damned government, its regulations and restrictions on my God given rights, my freedom, and the fruits of my labor, so I can properly arm myself…………………..and send me some “terrorist”. PLEASE, and Thank You!
You just made the Quote of the Month, Mr. Walker.
Thank you.
Besides the "just war" nonsense, the rest of it was spot on. Petraeus is nothing but a politician, and has completely lost his sense or liberty. We are AT WAR, in the sandbox and back in the states. We were at war before this Koran burning, and mosque, and they will still try to kill us long after all this has blown over. The terrorist will not stop. They won't stop until we are all dead and there is no more America. You cannot appease these terrorist, and saying that they may take it easier on us if we don't burn Korans or allow Muslims to put up a victory mosque on our soil is laughable! We don't negotiate with terrorist, you idiot! We certainly aren't going to stop asserting our 1st amendment rights to appease them either, after all, it wouldn't work anyway. They would just see us as weak for backing down, which they no doubt do as the dumb pastor has now backed down. What a spineless piece of worthless dung. If you say you're going to do something, go through with it for goodness sakes!
Witchwood writes: "it's not surprising that [Grigg] would dismiss 14 centuries of violent conquest"
The Christians have been winning at violent conquest for the last couple centuries. Can we update our scorecards to match current military realities please?
Anon:
Do you really think Iraq is neutralized now, or that it will not go actively hostile again (albeit under non-Hussein new management) once we complete withdrawal?
Do you think Afghanistan is neutralized now, or that it will not go even more actively hostile once we complete withdrawal?
How about Pakistan?
Syria?
Lebanon?
Indonesia?
Iran?
Turkey?
Western Europe?
The UK?
How about here in the US of A -- have you noticed what has happened here to civil liberties in the last 30 years (setting the date based on the successful deployment of Khomeinism against our former strategic ally)?
Just as with American citizens with their safes full of guns and ammo but no will to use them to defend freedom, the undeniable might of the US .mil makes no difference for Western Civ if it is not unleashed on its only proper purpose -- to kill people and break shit, and to do so in sufficient volume such that the enemy utterly capitulates.
Score it as you will, but the facts over thirty years tell me that hajji is wining the strategic struggle of barbarism versus civilization.
But they sure as hell are going to take advantage of the mess this damn government has made of American.
Exactly, and they, like the government, must be recognized as a hostile faction in this conflict. I'm not saying one or the other. I'm saying both at once.
The Christians have been winning at violent conquest for the last couple centuries. Can we update our scorecards to match current military realities please?
Then by all means, let's let our guard down, since we're currently "winning" in your view. Brush up on Military Strategy 101, guy.
Also, "The Christians do it too!" is a fallacious argument. A civilization has the right to defend itself from existential threats regardless of past transgressions, and Islam is certainly such a threat. If you wish to hang your head after every Moslem victory and chant "The Christians do it too!" until some insane notion of parity is achieved, be my guest. I will not be joining you.
Islam is at war with the world entire and has been since its creation. The Battle of Tours in 732 and the koran-burning in 2010 are points on the same timeline and battles in the same war. There is no neutral ground. If you do not wish to live under Islamic domination, you have declared yourself.
CA, I judge hostile and/or neutralized by military/LEO results on the ground. I know of people who had a fine hippie experience in Afghanistan in the 1970's. They lived there, they worked there, they many had good things to say about the locals. I suspect that today I could live and work a white collar job in the cosmopolitan big city areas of at least half of those countries, if I wasn't an ugly American. Collectivism claims that every human living within a region on a map has identical political beliefs, which are dictated by "leaders" who speak for everyone as one monolithic policy bloc. This isn't the ground truth for Iraq, Afghanistan, or Pakistan any more than it is for America. So when you ask me to describe the foreign policy of "Iraq", your question assumes a collectivist oversimplification fantasy world which doesn't exist. Perhaps a Lebanese-American reader from the Toledo, OH area could comment about how varied the political opinions are in the map region named "Lebanon".
But back to your question. Given the recent lack of bombings in the CONUS traceable back to residents of those countries, I conclude the bulk of the population in these areas is not hostile in practical terms. If they are neutralized, it is not because the US armies did it, it is because their local stupid-politics prevents their entrepreneurs from being as materially productive as they could be in a free-er country. If the US pulls troops out of those areas, they will go back to fighting amongst themselves for the spoils of political theft, like they were doing before the US troops showed up.
"How about here in the US of A -- have you noticed what has happened here to civil liberties in the last 30 years"
Yes, under the control of nearly-royal families who mostly have American and British passports, cultures, loyalties, and power bases; not Muslim. When you think of this group you should picture Kennedys, Bushs, and Rockefellers, not Islamic persons. How many fundamentalist Muslim army generals of bomb-throwing soldiers do you find at the Bilderberger shindigs? CFR? Skull and Bones? The business and social gatherings where rich old money American families hang out? This group was winning the strategic struggle against the existence of the American middle class, but they have failed to internally propagate the essential details of their ruler-culture to their children. The looming hyperinflation they've caused will pull their defeat from the jaws of victory.
In 2001, 19 suicidal hijackers with poorly-explored affiliations killed 2,752 people, for a total of 145 deaths/terrorist. Doesn't that body count look kinda wimpy compared to the war on drugs keeping a million people in prison each year, and taxing tens of millions more to fund it? How long does it take the average drug war prosecutor to ruin 145 lives? The Muslim contribution to American political unhappiness is so small as to be irrelevant.
Witchwood, yes the fundamentalist Muslims want to be hostile to America. But, they're incompetent at anything more than terrorizing their local women. Which country have Muslims conquered in the last 100 years? Do not say the US or UK. Are the chairmen of the boards of all the military industrial complex companies now all Muslims? How about the state-level kingmakers of the D and R parties? Or the directors of the three-letter government entitlement-paying agencies? Wall street?
CA writes: "the facts over thirty years tell me that hajji is wining the strategic struggle of barbarism versus civilization."
What facts? 90% of US income taxes go to welfare, warfare, public relations ("education"), and bankers. Show me where Muslims receive as much tax money as, say, Israel, much less General Electric. The government is run for the benefit of the tax recipients, which does not include the Muslim world. The Muslims are not winning in any way measurable by finance or geography. Don't be distracted by how much airtime they receive in the MSM, look at how many of other people's stolen dollars they receive.
Witchwood writes: "A civilization has the right to defend itself from existential threats regardless of past transgressions"
A civilization? Who is that? Your statement hinges on the idea that collective guilt is morally valid, that I am personally partially responsible for the actions of the rapist down the street. The Soviet Union used this idea to kill the families of dissenters. The collectivism portion of your statement is bogus. Removing the collectivism leaves: A multiple murderer-rapist has the right to defend itself from existential threats, such as retribution by the victims, regardless of past transgressions. The evading-consequences-of-actions portion of your statement is bogus, too.
Imagine for a moment that 9/11 didn't exist. What evidence do you have that "the Muslims" are "winning" a "war" against "the US"? Are they extracting monetary tributes? Are they occupying ground? Have they replaced the existing government ruling elites with themselves? No, everywhere in America we look, we find Americans at those levers of power. I'm including that guy who reads speeches as American, he sounds like a garden variety American liberal.
Now add 9/11 back in. Your huge clash-of-civilizations case rests on 19 suicidal people, who were apparently not even soldiers, much less the equivalent of commandos, seals, or special forces. This was not a daring mission whose huge logistical expense was financed by the taxes of millions. You're making out like it was the Manhattan project, when it was more like the Unibomber's writer's group.
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