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Timing can sometimes be the only difference between an accomplice, a brave man, and a cynical opportunist.
You make the call.
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Monday, March 7, 2011
10 Comments:
The ATF whistleblowers did the right thing because their conscience finally got the better of them.
But 6 months ago those guys would have kicked your door in and shot your dog over some stupid 4473 paperwork or owning a "unregistered assault rifle"(whatever that may be). So don't put them on a pedestal because they did something right for once.
They still work for the fukn gestapo. There's no excuse for someone who would shoot a fellow american for exercising their 2nd Amendment rights granted under the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. The same rights the agents swore to uphold and defend. So that would make them murdering hypocrites, wouldn't it?
Just like the IRS, they own way too many automatic weapons and sawed off shotguns to be the nice guys,(legally, they don't have the right to own them anyway). I think they should be disarmed, just like they are doing to us.
0321
"The enemy of my enemy is my friend."
I posted this at AP's and I'll post it here:
Your (AP's and like-minded friends) ideological purity is commendable. Reminds me of some communists and the dialectic I once knew. I suppose I could have taken that position, but then no one would have heard about Gunwalker then, would they?
We all come to the Road to Damascus by different ways. Condemning people you do not know because they are not as far down that road, or entered by a different byway is, well, there's a word for it.
I stand by every word I wrote about Dodson, and all the ones I will write when I am able to say more.
Just remember that Dodson has struck a mightier blow against the domestic enemies of the Constitution than you or I, or anybody else has in decades.
Despise him if you will. Suspect him if you will. You still cannot take that away from him.
But, by all means, as is your right you may spit on his boots as he strides by you, cowering in the ditch, taking the fight to our common enemy. There's a word for that too.
Mike Vanderboegh
III
"Your (AP's and like-minded friends) ideological purity is commendable."
I have never enjoyed being condescended to by anyone. It is regrettable that Vanderboegh must always resort to such when his position is challenged in the slightest. In the past, I have commended him for his work. I have also taken issue with some of his positions based on my life experience. Sometime that is what grown-ups do.
Having said that, I ardently object to being compared to a communist and being called a coward! Unlike Mike, I was never one who embraced communism. I have no need to be redeemed for sins of that nature. Nor have I ever taken a single dime of state (stolen) money because of my "illness".
I have engaged in this battle for truth and to regain a properly functioning Republic for over 20 years. I have done it with the best of intentions and from my position of principal. It has cost me much on a personal level and from the perspective of lost finances. I am certainly well past the halfway mark in my life and have seen nothing to convince me that waiting "until we are ready" would gain anything.
I stand by everything I said with regard to the ATF, agent Dodson, Senator Grassley and anyone else who works for the corrupt D.C. regime now or in the past.
I suggest Mike get over his self-righteous indignation and quit bashing those who do not always agree with him 100%.
I have offered this comment here at WRS due tot he fact that Mike often censors comments he does not agree with.
KPN3%
Explain to me how we win without oath keepers AND how we recruit them by spitting on the first one who shows up?
Mike:
Ask your informant if he will go on unconstitutional gun raids.
He is still on the BATFE payroll, right?
CIs are part of the game.
Beatification of a guy who is still getting checks from the Gestapo and who came forth not at the beginning but in the middle is the issue.
You should know better.
And "cowering in the ditch", Mike?
You should be ashamed of yourself.
Get a grip.
I agree with the previous post, an ex nazis is still a nazis and he still gets an atf check. He has not resigned has he? Mike needs to come down off the cocky arrogance and see the traitor turning in the traitors. He can put sugar on the turd but you still taste turd in the end.
Yes , maybe this whistle blower would or has been on gun raids Constitutional or not. It does not change the fact that somewhere on the road of life you reach that fork that you cannot take.
I have not always lead a life in the service of my Lord and Savior either, I have been however for many years. "Let him who without sin cast the first stone".
Don't break your arm patting yourself on the back for your "sacrifices" in the cause of liberty. Many of us have been doing the same thing and have made sacrifices much larger perhaps. I have no regrets and would do it again without feeling sorry for myself for doing so. Perhaps doing a better job would be my only wish.
I too am tired of waiting... not getting any younger. I do understand that to try and initiate something is stupid and will have the opposite effect desired.
I agree with Mike's assessment of agent Dodson, and I pray that this will start a flood of others that want to come clean in the service of their country. Perhaps they have seen too much and cannot keep their silence any longer. This is how the beast is beaten at his own game ... civil war is not a thing that should be embraced lightly. Well done Mike ....
I posted this over at AP's place and I guess it bears repeating.
While I am in no wise a statist/collectivist/"progressive", I think you are dead wrong. Not everyone who works for the federal government is a traitor. Got an Uncle who worked for the USPS. I do not believe HIM to be a traitor.
Not all the federal LEOs are pigs. Granted a large number of them - possibly the majority, who knows - are pigs but not all.
You are condemning the man - and his fellow whistle blowers - without knowing them or anything about them. "I don't HAVE to know them!", some might say (bluster?) "Where they choose to work tells me all I need to know about them."
Don't know if you consider yourself any sort of Christian, but in any case I would remind you of the words of the Carpenter's Son. In the Sermon on the Mount He commended folks not to condemn so that they wouldn't be condemned. In the Sermon on the Plain He commanded them not to condemn or they would be condemned by the selfsame standards they applied to others.
Are those serving in the Armed Forces today also traitors because they serve in part of an illegitimate government? They also serve in an "alphabet agency" - USAF, USN, USA, USMC, USCG - so they are traitors as well?
Careful, boy. I spent a decade with USAF stripes on my sleeves. My son spent a few years with USA stripes on his. I have uncles, cousins, nephews and other kin who served in elements of the alphabet agency known as the D. O. D.! I tend to get a mite cranky when someone starts saying disrespectful things about kin. In a truly civilized society my second would have already contacted yours to start making the arrangements.
Bad Cyborg X
Pardon me for saying so, but I think both sides in this dust-up may be overreacting. Mike for demeaning folks who stand for liberty and the Constitution and the folks here for deciding without enough information that some ATF agents, or cops, don't deserve a chance to see the light.
I was a cop many years ago. It took many of the years since that time for me to come around to seeing that some of the things I did were wrong. Even though I tried to be a peace keeper instead of a law enforcer, I still detained and arrested people for breaking laws that should never have been written, let alone enforced. There were several times when I wanted to let the person go, but I was told that ignoring a felony was itself a felony, and I could be arrested myself. I didn't have the courage to do what was right in the face of that risk.
This Dodson may just now be coming to an awakening, an epiphany about what he does. Maybe he will come out the other side of this knowing that _most_ of what he has been doing has been wrong, not simply going along with Project Gunrunner/GunWalker.
I don't agree with Mike Vanderboegh on a number of issues, and the biggest for me is his propensity for jumping hard on those he disagrees with, without giving them the room to simply think differently or perhaps just be mistaken. (Think Tom Baugh, for one.)
But I DO agree with him that it is still possible for agents like Dodson to come around. If he and the agents that talk about Cleaning Up ATF decide to stop abusing and arresting our fellow citizens for malfunctioning weapons, paperwork errors, barrels an inch too short, and the rest of the BS they have been arresting and harassing people with, I will cut them some slack.
If, however, they continue to participate in ATF's usual illegal harassment of our brothers and sisters out there, then they will deserve to be shunned, vilified, and dealt with as traitors to America and the Constitution.
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