Western Rifle Shooters Association

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Saturday, October 2, 2010

The Girlie Gun


GardenSERF has an approach for those members of the tribe who hate the recoil and/or blast from more powerful rifles.

Check it out.

19 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Have you looked at High Point firearms? They make pistols and carbines in .380, 9mm, .40 & .45.
I realize that many gun dealers, snobs and effetes turn their nose up at the name.
But it is, for the price (real cheap), a solid, effective, no-nonsense, reliable firearm.
Even if it is as ugly as sin and as heavy as a brick.

October 2, 2010 at 4:36 PM  
Blogger Pat H. said...

Recoil energy with a 5.56x45 (aka 5.56NATO) is between 5 and 6 foot-pounds, compared to the 7.62NATO which is about 18 foot-pounds. My AR in 6.5 Grendel is between 9 and 10 foot-pounds.

I don't know what an AR firing 9mm recoil energy is, probably lower than firing the 5.56x45, but since the rifle will weigh close to the same, there's little or nothing to be gained as far as weight savings are concerned. I don't know what the sound pressure levels are with the 9mm either, but I'd expect them to be somewhat lower out of a 16 inch barrel compared to a pistol barrel of 3-5 inches.

I'd like to see or read a comparison between a 9mm and 5.56mm AR carbine with some empirical evidence obtained before I'd consider the 9mm over the 5.56 for the recoil intolerant.

October 2, 2010 at 4:47 PM  
Blogger Bill St. Clair said...

I always thought that the standard M-16/AR-15 in .223 Remington (5.56x45mm NATO) was a girlie gun. Loud? Yes. That's what ear protection is for. Recoil? What recoil?

October 2, 2010 at 6:32 PM  
Anonymous typeay said...

http://www.keltecweapons.com/our-guns/rifles/sub-2000/

The Kel Tec Sub - 2000 folding carbine in 9mm. Reliable as the sun. Takes standard, hi-cap 9mm Glock mags. Folds in half (or snaps open) in two seconds flat. For the record: One folded Sub-2000 carbine, One Glock G-17 pistol, 2 Glock 33 round mags, and two Glock 17 round mags., will ALL fit in a standard, 3 inch thick, lap-top computer sized, nylon cloth briefcase. Think about it.

October 2, 2010 at 6:55 PM  
Blogger SavaShip said...

This seems quite extreme... no one in our house likes nasty recoil either, so we use $30 muzzle brakes on our rifles. 5.56x45 feels like a BB gun!

October 2, 2010 at 7:35 PM  
Anonymous GardenSERF said...

Pat H,

The sound pressure levels from the 9mm thru the long barrel "seemed" far less to me than any of the 5.56s or 7.62x39s I own. I don't have any equipment to measure this.

My perception was also that muzzle climb was less when shooting rapidly than with 5.56 as well. It probably would have helped for me to add that about muzzle climb in my original post rather than just mention recoil alone.

typeay,

Yes, the keltec was also a serious consideration.

October 2, 2010 at 10:29 PM  
Anonymous Jay Stang said...

Uh, there is no recoil on an M16A2. Want a recoil dampener? Wear a shirt.

October 2, 2010 at 11:09 PM  
Blogger Dennis308 said...

That´s right Sava Ship a muzzel brake will work on about any gun you putém on. The gun is LOUDER in any caliber. But if Other people are Shotting at YOU I don´t think you´ll mind the noise that you are making.
Or if you want to spend a little bit more money on a gun you already have you can always put a supressor on(check local and state law in your Area of Opperation) Legal in Texas with the $250.00 Federal Registration. A supressor will do the same job as a muzzel brake and do it QUIETLY!

And for all of you that can´t have a supressor in your state,
so sorry. We have some screwed up pistol laws in Texas, but the state is Pretty Reasonable about
Long Guns.

Dennis
III
Texas

October 2, 2010 at 11:11 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Huh? Recoil from a 5.56 X 45?

Take them to an Appleseed and let them earn how to shoot properly.

Wear some heavier clothing.

One can even purchase a shoulder pad.

....but buy a whole new gun in a non-rifle caliber...er why bother?

KPN3%

October 3, 2010 at 2:10 AM  
Blogger Concerned American said...

An alternative perspective (which is all GS was providing):

If Madame will shoot this and will not shoot the other (rational or not), isn't it better to have two muzzles spitting lead, rather than yours alone?

October 3, 2010 at 2:15 AM  
Blogger Dennis308 said...

C.A., Tell Mama that her learning to shoot the big gun(5.56?) will save the kids/grandkids. Then Get Out of the Way. Even my Moma(82yrs old)can shoot the A-R 5.56 By the way she approves of this message.
But yea, if she is realy not disposed to shoot any thing but the little .22 that is what you´ll have to work with.
Dam´nn Mama told me not to marry ¨That Skinny Little Thang¨ LOL

Dennis
III
Texas

October 3, 2010 at 6:07 AM  
Anonymous Defender said...

I get the concept: to reduce recoil and blast anticipation and flinching, and build good sight-picture and trigger control habits. Good for training. When you're knee-deep in the sh--, though, even the kick and blast of a .44 Magnum will be no more distracting than that of a .22 Short. I experienced that hunting wild boar.

October 3, 2010 at 6:24 PM  
Blogger Concerned American said...

God bless you, your Mama, and Texas.

October 3, 2010 at 10:53 PM  
Blogger Pat H. said...

Y'all may find some enlightenment by watching this video comparison between AR-15 and Ruger SR-556.

Note that the guy doing the shooting has about the worst stance and grip on the rifle one is likely to see.

The carbine stock isn't extended at all that I can see, the shooter's weight is not over his offside shooting foot (in this case, his left), all of which could make recoil management very difficult.

I was watching a friend's wife shoot my 6.5G AR some time back. She did not like the recoil, but her posture with the rifle was awful, most of her weight was on her back foot and her back was arched to the rear to counter act the weight of the rifle.

Things to consider.

October 3, 2010 at 11:33 PM  
Blogger Concerned American said...

Pat:

You just closed a circuit in my mind that has been open while training ladies to shoot rifles from standing.

It's their response to the weight of the rifle itself that causes that pelvis-forward, spine curved backwards almost to hyperextension stance.

I had been assuming until reading your note just now that they were trying to distance from the muzzle blast and the clackety-clack action drama of a self-feeder.

Thanks you so much.

and PS -- yes, I am that dim.
:-)

October 3, 2010 at 11:38 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The muzzle blast of 5.56mm indoors or under a metal roof (see shooting from the bench) is very intimidating to less experienced shooters. Indoors with 5.56mm just plain sucks no matter what. Muzzle brakes? Just makes it worse.

The muzzle blast from a 9mm AR is extremely mild indoors when wearing ears.

As Concerned states, if the Mrs. will shoot the one but not the other - and you're talking short range - what's the issue? The more comfortable she gets, the more she'll be willing to step up later.

The solution, of course, is to introduce slowly and carefully and not simply say "man up." It's not cheap or easy, but it is what it is.

That said, I own an AR because it's for my wife. :)

October 4, 2010 at 6:17 PM  
Anonymous GardenSERF said...

CA and Pat,

Ok, so let's think about this. Does a guy hold a hi-cap rifle to counteract just for the weight of the rifle while not being fired; or, does he position his stance to anticipate some of the movement of the rifle's action backward AND the climb of the muzzle while being fired? He adjusts his body to compensate for all of this in advance.

If I'm going to help a relative non-shooter (or one of small stature) to develop some muscle-memory for semi-autos, wouldn't I want to do this on an "easier" caliber (and cheaper on consumption cost of ammo)? Even if the novice doesn't want to "move up" to the more effective caliber later, at least they've developed a skill with something larger than a .22 rimfire.

October 4, 2010 at 7:21 PM  
Blogger Concerned American said...

GS:

I think it is a good idea. And I agree that the novice is attempting to compensate for many issues when they first intuitively position the rifle.

I close with my standard offer: if the [insert caliber] here is ineffective at this range, go downrange and hold the target in front of you.

Anything that gets people out training is a good thing.

October 4, 2010 at 7:25 PM  
Anonymous GardenSERF said...

CA,

Mrs G shot The Girlie Gun and I've posted a review here:

http://gardenserf.wordpress.com/2010/10/12/the-lady-and-the-girlie-gun/

Please feel free to post at WRSA.

Thanks.

October 12, 2010 at 11:35 AM  

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