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Thursday, August 12, 2010

Fjordman: On The Illusion Of A Moderate Islam

From Jihad Watch, via Gates of Vienna:

This essay overlaps to some extent with earlier essays of mine regarding the alleged existence of a "moderate Islam," including Do we want an Islamic Reformation? and Why We Cannot Rely on Moderate Muslims.

In this discussion I take as my starting point the fact that the traditional Islamic religious texts -- the Koran supplemented by secondary sources such as the hadith literature -- through a straightforward reading encourage perpetual violence against non-Muslims around the world until the global supremacy of Islam and its followers has been firmly established. There are plenty of studies available confirming this. Muslim scholars themselves, including prominent ones such as al-Ghazali and Ibn Khaldun, have supported this view for well over one thousand years and continue to do so in the twenty-first century.

One complicating factor is that lying to or deceiving non-Muslims using techniques known as taqiyya and kitman are perfectly permissible in Islam and widely practiced by Shias and Sunnis alike. The claim that this strategy exists within Shia Islam alone is false; for example, the Palestinian Sunni Jihadist leader Yasser Arafat (1929-2004) at the same time as he was talking about "peace" to Westerners -- a game of deception which earned him a share in the Nobel Peace Prize in 1994 -- to Arabic-speaking audiences suggested that the Oslo peace negotiations with Israelis were merely temporary measures similar to the Treaty of Hudaybiyya between Muhammad's followers and the non-Muslim Qurayshi tribe of Mecca, which was promptly broken as soon as the Muslims felt strong enough to get away with it.

Many Muslims, for instance Tariq Ramadan, are known to put up a "moderate" face in front of an infidel audience but present a very different message when addressing Muslims in their own language. Generally speaking it is permissible for Muslims to lie, or withhold the truth, if they cannot yet force their will on their opponents by brute force, as long as they keep the "true Islam" alive within their hearts. This does of course not mean that all Muslims do this always, but it is a common strategy employed particularly where Muslims are a minority.

In plain words this means that if Western countries ever become serious about closing their borders to Muslim immigration and expelling sharia-sponsoring persons from their lands, we should expect to see an immediate, massive increase in the number of "kind" and "tolerant" Muslims in the West, but many of them would be lying and biding their time for better days.

The trouble with self-proclaimed "moderate Muslims" is that many of them, most likely the majority, use deception to confuse the infidels while infiltrating their societies. This implies that non-Muslims cannot know for sure whether Muslims are being honest with them or not and can never fully trust them. It does not mean that "moderate Muslims" don't exist in the form of individuals who genuinely desire to live in peace with their neighbors -- people aren't born Jihadists just because they have a Muslim name -- but it is extremely hard for infidels to distinguish between those who are genuine and those who are merely trying to deceive us...

Read the rest.

And consider the impact if, as one commenter on another blog described it, secular collectivism and Islam have struck a modern-day Molotov-Ribbentrop pact.


Anonymous Anonymous said...

Message from the Boss:
Lack of proper education among Muslims living in the Islamic world has made them easy to decieve. We trick them into blaming Israel for everything so they do not see the BS in their Koran and leaders. And with this we have a bomb that can go off whenever we need another war to distract people.

August 12, 2010 at 4:55 AM  
Anonymous Defender said...

In all of our solar system, life is the rare exception.
Across this planet where life exists, freedom is the rare exception.
An Islamic school near Washington DC still uses a textbook glorifying martyrdom and describing non-Muslims as inferior beings who need and deserve to be dominated.
That would be ... uh, fascism.
That would also be the parts of the Earth where Muslims gain the majority.
I understand that Turkey tries to keep affairs of state and Islamic religion separate. Anyone else?
The United States hasn't even acknowledged the voting rights of the female 51% of the population for a hundred years yet. Freedom is not only the exception, it is still a work in progress.
To declare a medieval patriarchal theocracy to be as valid as any other culture in the 21st Century earns the Darwin Award of all Darwin Awards.

August 12, 2010 at 6:39 AM  
Blogger Conan the Cimmerian, King of Aquilonia said...

For Defender, go check out this:


August 12, 2010 at 2:24 PM  
Blogger Conan the Cimmerian, King of Aquilonia said...

Oh, Defender, it is about Teh Patriarchy!

August 12, 2010 at 2:25 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

On The Illusion Of A Moderate Christianity: We Cannot Rely on Moderate Christians to restrain the fundamentalists.

Traditional American Christian civic-religious texts through a straightforward reading encourage perpetual violence against non-Americans around the world until the global supremacy of America and its followers has been firmly established. There are plenty of studies available confirming this. Extreme Christians vote for the status-quo GOP and foreign war adventures against far away peoples who would otherwise not bother to attack us, and bankrupting levels of national debt to grow their enormous central control programs.

If you wish to bash a whole religion due to the behavior of its rather prominent lunatic fringe, start by removing the beam from your eye. Big government warmongering in America is a Christian movement. The CIA is nicknamed Christians In Action for a reason.

August 12, 2010 at 3:21 PM  
Anonymous Dennis308 said...

I have heard that a moderate Muslim are punished in many parts of the world for Not being true to Islam. And a Bad Muslim is punished even more severely than a Infidel. So how can there be a Good Moderate Muslim.

Personally I have NO TRUST in any Muslim. There are a few so called Christains I donĀ“t trust either especialy those that try to Force others what to do or not do and how to act.


August 12, 2010 at 5:29 PM  
Anonymous Defender said...

Went there, Conan. A very well-reasoned argument. But as commenter Mike T. says, Muslim patriarchy is not modern Christian patriarchy. Certainly some modern American men treat women as property as much as they can ("If I can't have you, no one else will either. Bang!"). There may be Muslim men who love and cherish their wives. There may be Muslims who love freedom, for themselves and everyone else. They are not the ones influencing world events.
As for the CIA, pseudo-conservative Republicans and world empire building as "Christian," tyrants wear masks when they choose. A candidate for high school senior class president said in her campaign speech that God was on HER side. That's called hubris.
No one can deny that in seeking to cast other cultures in the American mold we have made enemies. Those would be the foreign entanglements the Founders urged us to avoid. And yes, we did claim and colonize a continent where PEOPLE WERE ALREADY LIVING. So did England and Spain.
The point is that most of us realize that that was wrong, whereas Islam considers it a divine mission. Christians no longer kill the heathens who won't accept Christ, but if you can't say in Arabic "There is no god but Allah and Mohammed is his prophet," in a lot of the world, you're going to scimitar city. I mean, you're not going to need or have the ability to wear a hat any more.
Even if Islamist terrorists are a fringe, with a billion Muslims, there are a hundred million "fringe elements."
And their governments do not consider them so.
Try wearing a cross openly in Egypt.
The difference is tolerance.
There's little enough of it even here. To tolerate the intolerance of the intolerant, no matter the symbol on their banner ...

August 12, 2010 at 7:57 PM  
Blogger J. Croft said...

One strategy that could work in drawing the Moslem World's attention back to their own lands would be to turn their women against them.

Think about it: they're treated as children, made to wear burkas in 120 degree heat, get stoned or executed if they're out without a male relative. Exposure to the Western World has opened up their world view on their position in a oppressive society.

Find the most pissed off, radical women willing to act. After an indoctrination in what WE believe in and some training send them back to Arabia and have them do some avenging in Al Qaeda's style. Ought to shake them up real good and at worst keep them busy in their own lands without much more bloodshed of our own people.

That makes too much sense however as the enemy loves shedding our blood for their goals.

August 12, 2010 at 8:50 PM  
Anonymous Defender said...


Serial killer knifeman suspect caught. Suspect's name is Elias Abuelazam. He targeted African-Americans.
Witnesses identified him in part by a T-shirt with advertising for New Amsterdam gin which he wore in more than one of the attacks.
It'll be interesting to see if he has any explanation.
I wish he had brought a knife to a GUNfight, but apparently all his victims were too nice to mess with those evil things. Someone might hurt someone in a fit of passion, you know. Better to be slaughtered like a sacrificial goat for NO reason.

August 13, 2010 at 4:41 AM  
Anonymous Defender said...

The police had Abu-el-Azam in custody but let him go, maybe over concerns of racial or religious profiling. He killed some more. Trust the System to protect you? Trust the people who tell you to leave guns to the professionals?

August 13, 2010 at 3:05 PM  
Anonymous Defender said...

Obama's Ramadan speech likens Islam to all the other major religions, in acts of prayer, fasting and charity. Sure.
Robert Spencer responds at www.frontpagemag.com.
Christians don't generally act on the Old Testament adminitions in Leviticus, which urge stoning gay people and adulterers to death. But wait. Muslims still do that medieval sh--.

August 14, 2010 at 6:05 AM  
Anonymous Defender said...

On Breitbart.com:

Muslim men immigrate and get a free apartment for EACH of their wives. They take the benefit money and ration a little back to the women, and don't have to work.
An unsustainable system.
It is the future you see. -- Yoda.

August 14, 2010 at 6:35 PM  
Anonymous Defender said...

Interesting quotes translated from Arabic, from the Ground Zero mosque founder. Doesn't believe in "religious dialogue," looks forward to ending separation of church and state (here or wherever) and establishing sharia law.

August 15, 2010 at 5:00 AM  

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