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A reader asks if anyone has any more info (registration required to access Shooters Northwest forum link; thread apparently not accessible immediately upon reg) on why the Washington State popo are dropping letters like the above at four gunstores and counting?
No ideas but that's pretty fucking far from a subpoena, no?
ReplyDeleteWSP are not ATF.
People in that area need to find a pro-RKBA attorney willing to go pro-bono for Team Freedom and put the brakes on this post haste.
ReplyDeleteEither they are looking for a misplaced duty carbine, OR they are phishing for information to be used at a later date. If its the former, I think said cop is trying like heck, in a severely crippled mentality way, to avoid possible in house trouble. (this is now moot if that is the case since there is now electronic documentation of the fact.) and if its the latter, Better look into the state regs to see if they are '
ReplyDeleteallowed' to do this. 2A not withstanding.
My guess would be one of the local or state LEO'S has "lost" his or her weapon. Don't think they would expend the resources to recover any weapon that has gone missing from the general public. JMO....
ReplyDeleteHere's an idea....ask the ATF they may have sold it to the Mexicans. Would that be trouble or what.....another border agent gets killed but this time by a state owned AR-15.....talk about blowing the lid off.
Wow! Color of law and all, I'd tell them to talk to my lawyer.
ReplyDeletePickdog
III
Lists are bad, no matter why they are started.
ReplyDeleteAP
I would think such a non specific request without any search warrant would be illegal. I wouldnt touch that without a lawyer saying it was OK.
ReplyDeleteSomething is not right with this. Looks like a back door registration attempt.
Last I heard, a certified letter was not a warrant. Quite a fishing expedition I'd say.
ReplyDeleteSeems like they're making a list -- and probably checking it twice.
ReplyDeleteHow is this not "registration"?
If a rifle was "lost or stolen" then they should have its serial # and be able to say "check your records for #1234567"
Not sure I'd comply with this one...
I can not say for sure but, CA you know from your experience as a prosecutor, that this is nothing less than a fishing expedition.
ReplyDeleteI see nothing here that would compel anyone to comply with the "request" (key word). It has not power at law. Having lived in that state for more than 2 decades (and damn glad I am not there anymore)I can say that the WSP are known for sneaky shit. I would expect that most gun dealers will comply because they are sheep.
Furthermore, those few who choose not to divulge this info will be visited by goons with badges and implied threats will be issued. It could even get to a point that they will play games like look the other way when they are called or any number of other low tactics to show who is the master.
KPN3%
Trying to build a database of purchasers. Since it's an ongoing investigtion, info can be held for ever. Tell em to stick it.
ReplyDeleteWhen I go fishing I use worms. They use an offical letterhead. Why not give the serial # of the stolen weapon? Smells fishy to me.
ReplyDeleteUh, fuck them. Just sayin'.
ReplyDeleteNo information, but suspicions, yes.
ReplyDeleteIt looks like a way to build an ownership database to me.
Do we know if anyone has called in a lawyer over this?
GRE article on it:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-seattle/wsp-jars-gun-dealers-sets-off-firestorm-atf-not-consulted
Looks like a fishing expedition or a back-door way to get a list of EBRs that may be in private hands.
ReplyDeleteranamacar
Isn't this against the Law? If the police know the serial number then they should trace just the one number. Building a file with hundreds of records in it is backdoor registration.
ReplyDeleteUmmm NO! WTF?
ReplyDeleteA private investigation of a State-owned AR-15 carelessly left unsecured in a car or somewhere that went missing? Who wouldn't prefer to recover their own weapon and make the scandal go away?
ReplyDeleteLet me help: be on good terms with local gun brokers/pawn shops and ask them to keep an eye open for a SPECIFIC serial number and description of the missing weapon. Offer a reasonable reward, privately (since it was your carelessness that lost the weapon).
The letter is a tactic of folks who think that police-State tactics of "demand all the information and sort it ourselves, and use the info and derived data for purposes other than for that originally obtained" is perfectly reasonable.
The Washington State Patrol is among the more respected professional forces in the PNW, and they could keep it that way, unless they want to be the ATF.
Cheers.
Don't know what rights FFL holders have vis a vis the police, but the words "get a warrant" come to mind...
ReplyDeleteThat's a troubling document...
ReplyDeletea reader ask if you have any more information. Instead he gets more speculation. Gosh, this is why I love the blog-o-sphere.
ReplyDeleteWe certainly are in a world of shit.
Monkeys, cupcakes and footballs I'd say.
Besides consulting your attorney before responding and/or complying with such a request or any other request, evaluate what is the actual loaded cost of compliance. For example, if the estimated search and reporting of your records consumes at least four hours of time and the loaded cost is $50/hour, then quote a minimum of $200 to comply, with the actual cost possibly higher. Have your attorney provide the quote to the requesting authority. Your attorney has much experience with "billable hours".
ReplyDeleteMaking you work for free is slavery.
They can make all the "requests" they want. Come back with a proper search warrant, and I'll let them search. Otherwise, they get nothing, nada, nil, zilch.
ReplyDeleteThey tried this crap in Florida, and one moronic gun store owner complied. The rest told them what they could do with their request. They were trying to find out where a murder weapon was purchased.
ReplyDeleteThey try these things to see if they will get away with it. If they do, they just get bolder. Just say "NO!"
What does that have to do with ONE missing AR....looks like a shake down and I'm calling BULLSHIT.
ReplyDelete