Editor's note:
Free men and women can always stay home, or go home. They will do so if they do not understand or do not believe in the mission. In other words, the FreeFor cannot rely on the coercive power of the UCMJ, the brig, and the firing squad to keep its members moving towards the objective. They must move into fire of their own volition, or not at all.
And do your best to keep the discussion in comments focused on ideas developed through dialogue, rather than on personal rancor.
Damn, damn, damn.
ReplyDeleteRight on the money.
I may have to re read this posting a few times.
I really liked the Patrick Henry quotes.
This one as well:
"They must move into fire of their own volition, or not at all."
Here's to FreeFor and volition.
Justin
I'd forgotten about that essay. It's one of the great ones.
ReplyDeleteI read Ken Royce's book about ten years ago, should be considered a must read for all.
In fact, all of the books listed as available in the essay are on my book shelf.
I've even read them.
Now I understand the recent fuss over the Articles of Confederation.
ReplyDeleteHoo boy. 76% of the people surveyed on the street don't recognize amendments in the Bill of Rights when one is read to them; they think they're far-out precepts of some radical foreign government. I bet fewer than that know or remember anything about the Articles of Confederation.
And for sure nobody in office wants them to know.
Interesting piece of history. Had I been around at the time, perhaps I would have been in favor of keeping the AoC.
ReplyDelete.
.
.
That being said, I'm still not sold on the Hologram of Liberty book unless it suggests any courses of action. The Constitution didn't fail, because agreements themselves don't fail. PEOPLE can fail to adhere to their agreements. PEOPLE can fail to take sufficient action upon recognizing that an agreement is not being adhered to.
The founders never advised us to sit back and expect that the Constitution would enforce itself.
If people aren't at least willing to take necessary action to see that current agreements are adhered to, are they really willing and able 1) sell a new/old agreement to the relevant players 2) enforce THAT new/old agreement?
Compare the two statements below:
"So now that you've violated the agreement you made, we're going to let that slide....but guess what? We're going to somehow figure out a way to make an end run around your agreement and revive an old agreement that technically is still in effect in a way, but that you yourself never agreed to."
OR
"I've noticed that you're breaking the agreement that you made. So, please follow the agreement that you made. BTW, a growing and visible group of us is saying this while carrying guns out in public. BTW, some of your people with guns are familiar with at least the basics of the agreement you are violating. So, pretty please, with sugar on top, follow the agreement that you made, OK?"
Govts. that are unorganized, undisciplined, and weak in regards to a military force, soon fall prey to govts. that are the opposite. Hence the Constitution. In a modern world, you cannot live the agrarian, laid back, keep off my cloud life when surrounded by warlike neighbors. The reason we've lasted this long is because of a strong central govt. It has become too strong, and will fall. AOC would not have survived the War of 1812. So dream on.
ReplyDeleteDan:
ReplyDeleteAmen, hence my support of RTC.
Sean:
The biggest shortcoming of the AoC is the national defense one. That is the reason I can't say take the existing AoC as the basis for going forward. Contrary to what some believe, there are jackals, bears, and dragons in the woods, and they will act with force in their interests.
"Govts. that are unorganized, undisciplined, and weak in regards to a military force, soon fall prey to govts. that are the opposite."
ReplyDeleteGovernments that are organized, disciplined and strong in regards to a military force will soon prey upon individuals that are the opposite.
The War of 1812 was fought by voluntary militias alongside pirates, and citizens up and down the East Coast voluntarily working night and day digging entrenchments and building parapets, after they heard what had happened to Washington.
As James Madison said, "The means of defence agst. foreign danger, have been always the instruments of tyranny at home. Among the Romans it was a standing maxim to excite a war, whenever a revolt was apprehended. Throughout all Europe, the armies kept up under the pretext of defending, have enslaved the people."
Keep your army. Be enslaved. The politicians sense the civil unrest growing. They're going to start another war. They're going to send troops overseas to die to cover their butts. War is the health of the State. They've got an army. They're going to use it. Here, if they have to.
The Constitution: ignored anyway.
ReplyDeleteGrassroots North Carolina (grnc.org) reports:
"Gov. Perdue's Order Suspends Rights of NC Gun Owners
HIS NAME IS EARL AND YOUR RIGHTS ARE NIL
With the approach of Hurricane Earl, the North Carolina state of
emergency statute (N.C. Gen. Stat. 14-288.7) has once again reared its
ugly head. Gov. Perdue has declared a state of emergency for the
entire state of North Carolina. As a result it is a Class 1
misdemeanor "for any person to transport or possess off his own
premises any dangerous weapon or substance." There is no exception for
recreational shooting. There is no exception for hunting. There is no
exception for having a concealed carry permit. The prohibition applies
to all possession -- open carry, concealed carry and transportation in
a vehicle.
GUESS WHAT SATURDAY IS!
Anybody? That's right... Dove season opens Saturday at noon. Unless
Earl is well past NC and the SoE has been lifted (not likely), every
hunter who doesn't live in the dove field is a criminal."
CA can a govt run system be eficcient at anything? Including defense?
ReplyDeleteCA - can a government that is by definition (because of lack of competition and a monopoly on the use of force) be efficient at anything including defense?
ReplyDeleteWe can offer huge blunders like; Pearl Harbor, the final plane hitting the Pentagon during 9/11.
It is hard to imagine what the market might provide in the sphere of defense but we could look to the computing industry for the massive strides made in computing in just a few decades.
Followup to "ignored anyway":
ReplyDeleteAnd if it's illegal to carry your guns off your property, and you're ordered to evacuate and it's mandatory...
No more free Katrinas?
"A republic madame if YOU can keep it". Apparently we could not keep it.We let our powers that were not delegated to the central government reside in the states & in turn thru many years of bribes the states sold our rights & made us slaves to the fed.How many of the original 12 amendments are reconized by the fed.I count one, article 3. Thats all that's left, & untill we grow a pair & reclaim the rights left to us by the Bill of Rights we'll continue to be slaves.
ReplyDeleteI spent a lot of years in the US military. There really aren't any credible threat countries any longer. None in Europe, none in Asia, none in South America.
ReplyDeleteYou certainly wouldn't assert that Canada and Mexico are military threats. Regarding Mexico, if the US government stood clear of the states, the current invasion of America by Mexico would be stopped cold, in fact, it would have been stopped decades ago.
So, no, the defense aspects of the AoC should not be a stopper at all. Do the analysis properly, don't go to NewsMax or WorldNet Daily for your information, both are Neocon rich, but short on facts.
Even more Constitution (actually Bill of Rights) be damned:
ReplyDeletehttp://thetruthaboutguns.com/2010/09/robert-farago/officers-safety-comes-first-and-not-infringing-on-peoples-rights-comes-second/
Out of state concealed carry permits not honored by Philadelphia despite reciprocity law. Confiscations, arrests.
We don't need no steenkeeng permits.
"The biggest shortcoming of the AoC is the national defense one. That is the reason I can't say take the existing AoC as the basis for going forward. Contrary to what some believe, there are jackals, bears, and dragons in the woods, and they will act with force in their interests."
ReplyDeleteThe Japanese were deterred by the idea of a rifle behind every blade of grass. Who today wouldn't be deterred by the idea of a little john tacnuke behind every blade of grass, a tacnuke mine on every ocean fishing boat, and cruise missiles of every size from bumblebees up to airliners? Stop infringing on RKBA and there will quickly appear a distributed national defense unsuited to military adventurism.
The current arrangement of a centrally planned standing army funded by theft and superior to the civilian force is only suited to kings playing the great game while bankers collect interest from both sides. "Hey! Maybe this time Afghanistan won't be the graveyard of empires!"
A whole lot of good solid patriotic folks have been seduced by the worship of that bit of parchment, and you risk the label of heretic by espousing this view.
ReplyDeleteI laud you for it.
It wasn’t until I read Hologram (three times) that I began to back away from my brand of documental idolatry. My knee jerk response was always to absolve the document, and excoriate the men whose twisted interpretations of the document have so damaged the freedoms that we once had. I see now that they simply took advantage of deliberately vague wording which was the very intent of Jay, Madison, and that evil genius Hamilton. If I had any doubt’s about Washington being one of the elite beneficiaries with a vested interest in moving toward “federalism”, those doubts were banished when I read His Excellency: George Washington.
Much of the trouble is rooted in the pervasiveness of ignorance as it relates to early American history. Ask most people what they know about the Framers and Founders, and you will get crap like Washington chopped down the cherry tree! Hell… most Americans, even those of us dedicated to so-called restoration, can’t even distinguish between a Founder and a Framer!
Royce made a point that really stuck with me, and I wish I could quote it verbatim. Think of all of the hullabaloo over the years surrounding even the second amendment. Think of all the whacky interpretations all the anti-gun pseudo lawyers have tried to apply to it down thru the years. How could men so skilled in the use of words left so important a passage is such an ambiguous state? The answer is that they embraced ambiguity as a method of allowing wiggle room for future federal expansion – and though it took many years, as a strategy it has begun to bear foul fruit in a big way!
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteIn response to this comment from Daniel:
ReplyDelete"The Constitution didn't fail, because agreements themselves don't fail. PEOPLE can fail to adhere to their agreements."
Ahhh but agreements between parties, if not written correctly, can certainly induce failure in the parties. A poorly written contract can cause no end of trouble.
That was Royce's whole point, that the Constitution was written deliberately with large areas of ambiguity. Hell, the framers weren't charged with scrapping and replacing the AoC. That wasn't even their mission!
Question: Have you actually read Hologram? Or have you simply read about it?
I agree, agree,agree, with the premise that the Constitution is Nationalistic in nature not Federalist and was purposely designed to be such.
ReplyDeleteI can highly recommend Boston T. Parties book on the subject "Hologram of Liberty" This book is what lead me down the rabbit hole that the Lew Rockwell article address's.
I've been pushing Hologram of Liberty for about a decade. We will not fix what's wrong with our country until we fix the 1787 Constitution... replacing it is problematical as a big part of Our America's identity is tied up in that subversive document. It was drafted by the enemy in secret and has been used against us as a weapon of mass destruction against our Freedom ever since it was ratified by force-read what happened to Rhode Island in 1791, not to mention the Whiskey Rebellion.
ReplyDeleteTo fix it we must win the inevitable struggle that is the Second American Revolution. To get more people we must show them what we are fighting for-because too many people calling themselves Americans haven't a clue just how brainwashed and enslaved they are.
To do that, with our paltry numbers, we have to have a political victory... in a small town... to use as a demonstrator of what Freedom really is.
I wrote much more on that here:
RECALL ELECTION: OBSTACLES TO OVERCOME:
http://freedomguide.wordpress.com/2009/02/11/recall-election-obstacles-to-overcome/
IT'S TIME:
http://freedomguide.blogspot.com/2009/02/its-time.html
Sean:
ReplyDelete"Govts. that are unorganized, undisciplined, and weak in regards to a military force, soon fall prey to govts. that are the opposite."
Switzerland comes to mind as an example which would refute that assertion. It is effectively a confederation, with a weak national government and weak military.
It is precisely due to the downstream effect of the Whiskey Rebellion treatment we find ourselves here.
GuRights4,
ReplyDeleteI have not read Hologram. I need to know more before I make a decision to invest time and money in a book. My main question: Does it suggest any realistic action plan?
Sean, though I agree your point, I am inclined to ask whether it is accurate to characterize the Swiss military as weak. My understanding is that every male Swiss citizen is a trained reservist who keeps and maintains his weapons either at his home or on his person at all time. Though they have signed the Nuclear Non-proliferation Treaty, they did carry out a "secret" nuclear armament program for several decades. Whether they now maintain a perimeter of missile launch silos in the Alps, nuclear or otherwise, I do not know. Correct me, if am wrong.
ReplyDeleteKyle James
Daniel asks if Hologram offers any "reasonable action plan".
ReplyDeleteYes - it does. Not at the tactical level, but at the strategic level.
And at around $16.00 new, I wouldn't call it an expensive investment.
The Swiss ARE weak. While they excell in small arms and training, they have no one who even in memory that has fought a war, and no generals that have either. Amour and artillery are minimal. While they could fight a damn good insurgency, they would lack the ability to support it after a year. The insurgents in Iraq have Islam. The insurgents in Switzerland won't even have Christianity, having largely abandoned it in favor of secular affluence. The Swiss were not attacked in WW1 or 2 because they actively, though quietly, gave support to Germany and their allies both times. Both financial and material. I don't condone a strong central govt. either, I'm just saying without one, you're toast as far as foreign policy goes. If a strong central govt. with an army is not under the control of the electorate, it, by sheer human nature, will oppress the electorate and tyrannize it. The trick is to remain strong, yet free. Or you get what we have now. So, Abstemio, what is your alternative? Without our large standing forces, in this present world, we wouldn't last. No, I don't want enslavement, but I have to live in the real world, and in that world, how do you propose to stay free without military might? You don't have an answer, do you? Everybody has to do and put up with things they don't like. It's called being a grownup.
ReplyDeleteThat photo of the tank... The video at the site below has comments from a soldier just back from Iraq about a town's "snow emergency" laws in Feb 2010. Relevant since Hurricane Earl has prompted a state of emergency to be declared, with restrictions of rights including gun rights in North Carolina.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.prisonplanet.com/gun-confiscation-in-response-to-hurricane-earl.html
I haven't heard of any New Orleans style confiscations. There had better not be any. But the law certainly makes it easy if they did decide to.
In the video, the mayor of a town in King County NC has declared a snow emergency. The lights are still on and the roads are passable, but there's a curfew, alcohol sales and possession are banned, and certainly no guns are allowed. A governor or president isn't required to impose the next best thing to martial law, just one tyrant five miles away.
So, in essence, we're fucked !
ReplyDeleteDAN
III
Defender,September 2, 2010 2:09 PM:
ReplyDeletePerhaps this is the time for your Lexington ?
Perhaps this is the time where the Freedom Fighters tell the governor "NO" ! You'll not disarm us !"
Perhaps this is the time where you march on the capitol ? And any collectivist representative of your tyrannical state government attempt to intervene, you engage !
Perhaps martial law usurps the Constitution ? It seems that way. NOT !
Perhaps it's time.
Perhaps.
DAN
III
Sean -
ReplyDeletei think the answer was provided by Jefferson:
"The true theory of our Constitution is surely the wisest and best, that the States are independent as to everything within themselves, and united as to everything respecting foreign affairs. Let the General Government be reduced to foreign concerns only, and let our affairs be disentangled from those of all other nations, except as to commerce, which the merchants will manage the better, the more they are left free to manage for themselves, and our General Government may be reduced to a very simple organization, and a very inexpensive one; a few plain duties to be performed by a few servants."
We don't need to project our desires by force beyond our borders. Need more Swiss type examples of resistance to foreign invasions? Somalia & Afghanistan come to mind...
Yes, how could the Afghanis defend themselves from outside aggressors without a standing army . . . like they've done successfully against two major world powers in the past 100 years, and are doing right now.
ReplyDeleteWe are over looking something here, And I think it is a VERY important part of History. In two words MANIFEST DESTINY.
ReplyDeleteBoth Madison and Hamilton were very radical believers in Manifest Destiny,(all that wilderness going to other nations) a plan or dream that could not have been realized with out a Strong Central Government and the resources that only a strong central government would have at it´s disposal. Under the AoC the United States in all probability would never have extended beyond Tennessee and Alabama, and the States of Ohio and Kentucky all the way to S. Dakota(see Louisiana Purchase via James Madison)would have been considered French Territories because of the connection to the Mississippi River. And all the Southwest would still be Spanish/Mexican rule.
So although the Constitution has it´s faults it is the basis for what made this country what it IS today geographically speaking at the very least.
Also like Daniel said most of the failure to the Constitution has been on the part of the people of this Nation to FORCE the Government and Courts to Adhere to the Constitution. Our Senators and Congressmen have to go home sometime and answer to their constituents if for nothing else that to run for re-elections. And up until recently only about half(if that many)of the eligible population even bothers to vote, much less address their Representatives in ANY MANNER!
Now it very well might be that Leviathan has grown past the point of control by Democratic means(people usually won´t vote against themselves). And a Restoration by more radical Second Amendment means is necessary to return to a more Constitutional and non-oppressive Government.
There are a couple of things that could be done to fix the weak points that are in the Constitution. But Only After the Defeat of the Progressive/Socialist Collectivists that are for now the major threat to Personal Liberty.
1. Remove the ability of the Legislators to Exempt themselves from all Registrations past, present and future.(Bet they read what´s in a bill then)
2.Remove the ability of Regulating Bodies,IE IRS,EPA,etc. from making rules without being voted on in both Houses of the Legislation.
3. Mandatory Term Limits on ALL Federally Elected Offices. And a ¨Resting¨ Period between the holding of different offices Congress to Senate for example.
Dennis
III
Texas
daniel said:
ReplyDelete"...OR
"I've noticed that you're breaking the agreement that you made. So, please follow the agreement that you made. BTW, a growing and visible group of us is saying this while carrying guns out in public. BTW, some of your people with guns are familiar with at least the basics of the agreement you are violating. So, pretty please, with sugar on top, follow the agreement that you made, OK?"
That's not going to work - but I'm sure as hell going to continue to support and attend the effort.
The FACT is that it's eventually going to come to this:
"OR
"It's beyond argument that you're breaking the agreement that you made.
It's time you follow the agreement that you made.
FACT: a growing and visible group of us is saying this while carrying guns out in public. We're doing this to TRY to get your attention before you go too far and force us to USE THEM.
FACT: some of your people with guns are familiar with at least the basics of the agreement you are violating. So, you need to realize that SOME of those you're counting on to support your ongoing tyranny will either defect or shoot your thugs in the back.
Last chance: Follow the agreement that you made, OK?
OR ELSE..."
Me, I think it's time we stop beating around the bush. These people don't GET "gentle nudge" - they only speak "direct and in your face."
IT's time we start speaking THEIR language - they're not hearing ours.
I sincerely hope we get the chance to do this before it is too late to stop the horrors that will follow - which is the main reason I say LET'S BE PLAIN AND SPEAK FRANKLY.
"STRAIGHTEN UP, OR ELSE!"
DD
The U.S. Constitution was a counter-Revolutionary act.
ReplyDeleteAnd freedom -- as a organizing concept or as a virtue standing alone -- seems beyond comprehension.
ReplyDeleteI despair.
Don´t despair CA there has to be a manner to combine the best of the AoC with the Constitution maybe by a re-wright after the Restoration or the succession of several States by making The Central Governments Main and Highest purpose to Protect the Rights and Liberties of the Individual it Most Important Duty.
ReplyDeleteDennis
III
Texas
"And freedom -- as a organizing concept or as a virtue standing alone -- seems beyond comprehension."
ReplyDeleteThings are going great! In part thanks to you, people have been pushed out of their constitution-worship comfort zone and they're thinking again. After two more years of study, many will despair and be anarchists because they can see no better alternative. That gets you freedom as an (non-)organizing concept. Appreciation of freedom as a virtue comes later after they see the peaceful and adaptive results: 'I used to believe in the Constitution, but look at my healthy grandkids and their bright future. Fred's open source medicine group is developing a treatment for colon cancer, and Sue is a colonist on Mars. Looking back it flabbergasts me that we used to waste 90% of GNP on war socialism.'